I agree with you Cliff but please remember. There are a lot of inadequate companies and designers charging more than they deserve. We have paid designers (none on the forum) to do work for us that we had to completely redo because they didn't use common sense.
We have seen designers with 20 yrs experience design large Mech rooms with Light Hazard only EC heads @ 18x18 and Labs with EH criteria designed with the same heads! We have see designers with 40 yrs experience make the very basic of mistakes over and over again, calcs, no pressure loss for backflows, no decrease of head spacing in combustible attics over 4/12 etc., improper head layout, etc etc. We have had a designer from on e of the largest sprinkler companies in the US design a standpipe with 50 psi at the top of each one since 50 +50 equals 100 psi, and therefore we met the requirement! I am not a socialist and I stand on the premise that a designer is worth what he/she is worth based on his/her own merit and performance. If he has 10 yrs expereince and designs circles around the 25 yr man, then the 10 yr guys is worth circles more than the 25 yr guy. The proof is in the pudding as they say. There are GREAT designers on this forum that we rely on when we can't handle it in house. Thanks TM and BG for the help! On 5/24/2010 8:08 AM, Cliff Whitfield wrote: > I'm with you Todd. I couldn't not have said it better. It's no different > than the various pricing you see on a sprinkler job itself. There are many > sprinkler contractors that either don't have the experience, the overhead, > the abilities, etc. and their prices are much different than the guys that > have been in the business for years with great employee benefits and lots of > seasoned veterans on staff. > > It all has to do with value not price. > > Cliff Whitfield, SET > > Fire Design, Inc. > 3784 Holly Ridge Trail > Marianna, FL 32448 > > > www.fire-design.com-----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Williams > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2010 9:56 AM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: Salary > > Travis, next 4 head job I get, I'm thinking of you. > > I take the opposite approach. I keep my pricing formulas private. I > don't want my clients to know how I figure it. This way I have > control over it. There are some 200 head jobs in a 20000 sqft > building that require a lot more work than others and the price > should reflect that. Also, there are some problematic > architects/engineers/GCs that have a higher cost of doing business > with. I want to be able to factor that in as well. Plus there are > other intangibles that I may want to include (travel, etc) If anyone > wants a quote on a job, I am more than happy to oblige. > > > > At 10:44 AM 5/24/2010, you wrote: > >> It depends on what the design house is being hired for. I do much of my >> work out of state, or out of the country. For those, a site survey is >> impractical. For projects that use the BIM process, then we readily >> incorporate into that as I draw in Autosprink which is fully 3D. For >> local projects where a site survey is required, then we readily perform >> those as it is included in the pricing structure. >> >> I don't know that pricing per head is necessarily wrong. I offer a $X >> per head or $0.x / sq ft, whichever is less expensive to the client. My >> regular customers know my per head costs and the sq ft cost is based on >> a sliding scale that is done with an excel spreadsheet. My customers >> know my price before they bid the job. So far, it seems to have worked >> out well. Remember, just as in installation, the customer is paying for >> a level of service that they want and/or need. >> >> On 5/24/2010 7:26 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> It has not been uncommon for some design houses to not even do >>> >> model coordination. They get the architectural plan and do their >> design based on that alone. All coordination with other trades is >> done in the field. These type places are all about production, >> they base fees on the number of heads on the drawing so systems are >> over designed. >> >>> What some companies fail to understand is that for the most part, >>> >> if you underpay someone or find someone who works cheap, it will >> probably cost you more in the long run. >> >>> >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>> Fire Protection Specialist >>> Mechanical Department >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>> [email protected] >>> http://www.ch2m.com >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of tom poisal >> >>> Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 10:24 PM >>> To: sprinklerforum >>> Subject: Salary >>> >>> The salary results have been tabulated from the NICET web site, for >>> designers without formal training and nicet certification, vs those >>> > with, > >>> college degree's, and it seems that according to my Linkin frens plus >>> contractors, most companies want to recruit a CET, proficient in some >>> > sort > >>> of CAD program be it; AutoSPRINK or SprinkCad, and pay bottom dollar for >>> this person and want a capable design project manager, field survey >>> > person, > >>> design technician, etc. all for under 50K a year. What is the >>> >> "going" rate ? >> >>> On an aside I was just told by a major designer (free lance) >>> >> that they do >> >>> NOT site survey for ease of installation, it is coordinated via >>> >> AutoCad. Go >> >>> figure! >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > 860.535.2080 > www.fpdc.com > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
