As we discussed a few weeks ago the first thing we need to know is what do we need to test: forward flow only, forward flow at the hydraulic design, at the design plus hose stream, at the capacity of the lead-in at the supply pressure, to insure that the checks completely open...? That will determine what size feed you need to your test point. Then how do you demonstrate you've met the test parameters? Barring an answer to the first question you can't answer the second so this is a mute discussion that is based on reading chicken bones for a solution. The question isn't how to perform a forward flow test but rather what question am I trying to answer when doing so. How will then obvious.
Ron Greenman ...On the phone On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:26 PM, "A.P.Silva" <[email protected]> wrote: > I may be wrong, but I think the original question was how is it > accomplished? Would you leave a test outlet at the sprinkler tree so that a > hose can be connected? Or would you have a test header outside the building > (similar to a pump test header)? How do others achieve the NFPA requirement? > > > Can the NFPA requirement for forward flow testing be achieved using the FDC? > All you would have to do is replace the check valve with a spool piece, at > the time of testing. Or even have a by-pass c/w a control valve across the > check valve. > > NFPA 13, 2007 exhibit 8.53 shows a backflow preevention device, but it is > not clear if it has "means for testing". Would help if NFPA gives an > "acceptable arrangement". > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker > Sent: October 4, 2010 8:05 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Backflow Forward Flow Test > > Jay, > > NFPA-13 requires a forward flow test without exception. However NFPA-25 > while requiring forward flow tests does contain a number of special > provisions, i.e. bfp size, existing systems, water conservation issues, etc. > Obviously if the system was installed under standards that required forward > flow at system demand plus hose at acceptance then the connection to do so > should be present. > > 2002 NFPA-13-16.2.5 Backflow Prevention Assemblies. > > 16.2.5.1 The backflow prevention assembly shall be forward flow tested to > ensure proper operation. > > 16.2.5.2 The minimum flow rate shall be the system demand, including hose > stream demand where applicable. > > 18.1 General. A sprinkler system installed in accordance with this standard > shall be properly inspected, tested, and maintained in accordance with NFPA > 25, Standard for the Inspection, Testing, and Maintenance of Water-Based > Fire Protection Systems, to provide at least the same level of performance > and protection as designed. > > 2002 NFPA-25 12.6 Backflow Prevention Assemblies. > > 12.6.1 Inspection. Inspection of backflow prevention assemblies shall be as > described in 12.6.1.1 through 12.6.1.2.2. > > 12.6.2 Testing. > > 12.6.2.1 All backflow preventers installed in fire protection system piping > shall be tested annually in accordance with the following: > > (1) A forward flow test shall be conducted at the system demand, including > hose stream demand, where hydrants or inside hose stations are located > downstream of the backflow preventer. > > (2) A backflow performance test, as required by the authority having > jurisdiction, shall be conducted at the completion of the forward flow test. > > 12.6.2.1.1 For backflow preventers sized 50.8 mm (2 in.) and under, the > forward flow test shall be acceptable to conduct without measuring flow, > where the test outlet is of a size to flow the system demand. > > 12.6.2.1.2 Where water rationing shall be enforced during shortages lasting > more than 1 year, an internal inspection of the backflow preventer to ensure > the check valves will fully open shall be acceptable in lieu of conducting > the annual forward flow test. > > 12.6.2.1.3 Where connections do not permit a full flow test, tests shall be > completed at the maximum flow rate possible. > > 12.6.2.1.4 The forward flow test shall not be required where annual fire > pump testing causes the system demand to flow through the backflow preventer > device. > > 12.6.2.2* All backflow devices installed in fire protection water supply > shall be tested annually at the designed flow rate of the fire protection > system, including required hose stream demands. > > 12.6.2.2.1 Where connections do not permit a full flow test, tests shall be > conducted at the maximum flow rate possible. > > Hope that helps > > John Drucker Jr CET > Fire Protection Subcode Official > Fire/Building/Electrical Inspector > Borough of Red Bank, NJ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jay White > Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 9:14 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Backflow Forward Flow Test > > Anyone familiar with NFPA 13 requirements to forward flow test the backflow > at system demand? Is this accomplished with a bypass arrangement? > > Jay White > Estimator/Design Manager > Dynamic Fire Protection > 1807 Hwy. 25 South > Starkville, MS 39759 > Phone: 662-324-1550 > Fax: 662-324-1545 > Cell: 662-312-2426 > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY: > This email message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged and > confidential, nor is it, unless specifically stated, intended to be relied > upon by any person or persons other than the individual or entity named > above and no warranties or representations are made or intended to persons > or entities not named above. 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