It'd be like reaching forward to 1996 and using the MRA reduction without the QR heads.
George Church Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben Young Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 2:14 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: System Area Size Ken, You're absolutely right, and that's the thought I was operating under. You can't cherry pick this stuff. I would only use this if the project was being done for an FM insured customer, where you would have to follow their other specifications anyway. Benjamin Young On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 1:59 PM, ParsleyConsulting < [email protected]> wrote: > Ben, > > While the research and testing done by FM Global does support their > approaches to protection methods, it has to be a complete package, > including their requirements for construction, seismic, sprinkler > system installation, finishes, and so forth. > > A very wise man from FM Global told me a short time ago that they're > seeing more and more systems designed to follow the sprinkler > discharge and pressure requirements from their storage data sheet > (8-9), while completely ignoring the caveat at the beginning of that > document which references all the other data sheets. The words he used were > that it was a "total package" > and it wasn't applicable if only one portion of it were selected and > followed while the others were ignored. > > Just my experience. > > PARSLEY CONSULTING > > Ken Wagoner, SET > > 760.745.6181 voice > > 760.745.0537 fax > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>e-mail > > www.ParsleyConsulting.com <http://www.ParsleyConsulting.com>website > > > > > On 2/23/2011 9:09 AM, Ben Young wrote: > >> They can follow it using adopted codes, though. NFPA 13, 2007 >> edition, >> 1.5 >> "Nothing in this standard is intended to prevent the use of systems, >> methods, or devices of equivalent or superior quality, strength, fire >> resistance, effectiveness, durability, and safety over those >> prescribed by this standard. Technical documentation shall be >> submitted to the authority having jurisdiction to demonstrate >> equivalency. The system, method, or device shall be approved for the >> intended purpose by the authority having jurisdiction." >> >> Boom, submit the FM design regulations under the equivalency clause. >> I think that most fire marshal's would be hard pressed to ignore or >> claim that FM didn't do their due diligence and research on their >> methods. >> >> This way you only have to submit one layout and satisfy the FM >> requirements, and those of the AHJ. >> >> Benjamin Young >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:33 AM,<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> When there is no code reference to a subject I agree that the AHJ's >> in >>> most >>> cases will defer to a recognized industry standard. BUT, when they >>> have a CODE, adopted by their jurisdiction which gives a clear >>> direction, good luck >>> swaying someone to go a different route. We all know how it works but a >>> local govt official, is in most cases going to stick to the book >>> he's been told to follow. >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>> Fire Protection >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:51 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: System Area Size >>> >>> Actually I think this could make a difference even before (or if) >>> adoption by NFPA. >>> Remember that "AHJ" includes insurance underwriters like FM, and >>> often a "Local" AHJ (Fire Marshal) will defer to FM, due to their >>> vast experience. >>> This could especially be the case if the TC has recommended approval >>> of these larger areas. >>> >>> Making it into the Standards and code, isn't the only way we apply >>> design information. For years if NFPA didn't cover some situation >>> but FM did, no-one worried about whether it was "Code" or "Adopted". >>> We simply used the best available information. >>> >>> I wouldn't be surprised to see these larger design areas before 2013. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> [email protected] >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:36 AM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: System Area Size >>> >>> While it's nice that FM has made these concessions, what difference >>> does it really make? Until the adopted Codes and Standards accept >>> or make any changes, we got what we got to work with. >>> >>> Craig L. Prahl, CET >>> Fire Protection >>> CH2MHILL >>> Lockwood Greene >>> 1500 International Drive >>> Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 >>> Direct - 864.599.4102 >>> Fax - 864.599.8439 >>> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >>> >>> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >>> [email protected] >>> >>> To Unsubscribe, send an email >>> to:[email protected] >>> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
