And George is back trumpeting the advantages of AFSA membership and the
high return on a low cost investment. Good on you, George. And so let me
second his appeal to all you non-members to join and all you current
members to renew your membership when it comes d.

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 7:55 AM, George Church <[email protected]>wrote:

> Imagine adding up all the years of experience, in various locales and
> different points of view (contractor, AHJ, mfrs, insurance, FPEs, etc) that
> are applied to situations like yours?
> P R I C E L E S S
>
> Makes the membership dues of AFSA seem trivial in comparison....yes, it's
> that time of year. Although my health precludes me from flying at this
> time, I'd urge all of you to consider attendance at AFSa's convention, and
> membership if you haven't.
>
> George L.  Church, Jr., CET
> Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
> PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842
> 877-324-ROWE       570-837-6335 fax
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of
> [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 9:45 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Supervised vales in pump room
>
> My thanks to everyone for the information. This forum is awesome.
>
> Ron Fletcher
> Aero - Phoneix
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane
> (NIH/OD/ORS) [C]
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Supervised vales in pump room
>
> And...
>
> NFPA 20 2010:4.16.2 Supervised Closed.
> The test outlet control valves shall be supervised closed.
>
> Duane Johnson, PE
> Program Manager
> Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research
> Services National Institutes of Health
> 301-496-0487
>
> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C]
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 7:35 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Supervised vales in pump room
>
> If leaving the valve in the wrong position will impair the operation of
> the sprinkler system, then the valve must be supervised, see below.
>
> NFPA 101 2012:9.7.2.1 Supervisory Signals.
> Where supervised automatic sprinkler systems are required by another
> section of this Code, supervisory attachments shall be installed and
> monitored for integrity in accordance with NFPA 72 , National Fire Alarm
> and Signaling Code, and a distinctive supervisory signal shall be provided
> to indicate a condition that would impair the satisfactory operation of the
> sprinkler system. Supervisory signals shall sound and shall be displayed
> either at a location within the protected building that is constantly
> attended by qualified personnel or at an approved, remotely located
> receiving facility.
>
> Also...
>
> IBC 2012:903.4 Sprinkler system supervision and alarms.
> All valves controlling the water supply for automatic sprinkler systems,
> pumps, tanks, water levels and temperatures, critical air pressures and
> waterflow switches on all sprinkler systems shall be electrically
> supervised by a listed fire alarm control unit.
>
> Exceptions:
>
> 1. Automatic sprinkler systems protecting one- and two-family dwellings.
> 2. Limited area systems serving fewer than 20 sprinklers.
> 3. Automatic sprinkler systems installed in accordance with NFPA 13R where
> a common supply main is used to supply both domestic water and the
> automatic sprinkler system, and a separate shutoff valve for the automatic
> sprinkler system is not provided.
> 4. Jockey pump control valves that are sealed or locked in the open
> position.
> 5. Control valves to commercial kitchen hoods, paint spray booths or dip
> tanks that are sealed or locked in the open position.
> 6. Valves controlling the fuel supply to fire pump engines that are sealed
> or locked in the open position.
> 7. Trim valves to pressure switches in dry, preaction and deluge sprinkler
> systems that are sealed or locked in the open position.
>
>
> Duane Johnson, PE
> Program Manager
> Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research
> Services National Institutes of Health
> 301-496-0487
>
> "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time"
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 1:36 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Supervised vales in pump room
>
> I'm not sure NFPA #25 would apply to a new installation. NFPA 20 requires
> the pump enclosure to be supervised or controlled but I found nothing
> requiring valve supervision. I don't have access to the codes on line right
> now so I can't look it up without going old skool using a book and that's
> too much trouble for Friday. I think IFC requires supply valves to be
> supervised.
>
> Ron Fletcher
> Aero - Phoenix
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Morey, Mike
> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 10:21 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Supervised vales in pump room
>
> There is no blanket requirement, NFPA 25 2010 4.16 covers what valves must
> be supervised, personally I think it's rather poorly worded, but if you
> read through the whole standard my impression is the intent of 4.16.2
> Supervised Closed. The test outlet control valves shall be supervised
> closed. includes these valves, otherwise you could leave the meter bypass
> open and have no pressure.  Typically we'd lock a valve like this open.
>  One could argue that the test outlet control valve is defined as the test
> header control valve, but there's a checklist in the standard that makes
> mention that test header AND meter bypass valves need to be supervised
> (form S2.2).
>
> Mike Morey, SET, CFPS
> Sprinkler Designer
> BMW Constructors, Inc.
> O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111
> www.bmwc.com
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: [email protected] on behalf of
> [email protected]
> Sent: Fri 8/24/2012 1:06 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Supervised vales in pump room
>
>
>
> Here is an easy one for Friday. Is there a general requirement that all
> valves in a pump room be supervised? I am wondering about the valves in a
> flow meter loop that are normally closed.
>
> Ron Fletcher
> Aero - Phoenix
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-- 
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

[email protected]

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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