16 years riding big RED trucks - never. 10 years as FPE (not riding big RED trucks) for City of St. Paul, MN never was aware FD used FDC. I went to/looked into about all sprinklered fires. I do know of a case where 200 something heads operated and they never used the FDC.
Probably would not notice the valve was closed initially. Hose to the fire first unless it was already too big a fire. There are a lot of what if's here that translate to what is a tactical question. If a valve was closed the engineer would know water was not flowing into the system and thus not reaching the fire. Textbook says hook up the FDC and pump into it first then deploy line to fire. Doubt this is done very often considering 99% (99.99?) of water flow alarms the fire is either out or it's a false alarm. I'd agree with anyone that says FDC are silly. But add they don't offend me as most of them don't cost much, 8' of pipe a couple 90's off the riser to the nearest wall. The remote ones can be pricy. When required to be on the other side of a large building with multiple risers can get a little pricy but in those cases probably proportional to the total cost of the building/sprinklers. Chris Cahill, PE* Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group Burns & McDonnell 8201 Norman Center Drive Bloomington, MN 55437 Phone: 952.656.3652 Fax: 952.229.2923 [email protected] www.burnsmcd.com Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For *Registered in: MN -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: FDC Arrangement I revert to my question: If the FDC is for sprinklers only (not a sprinkler/standpipe combo) has any fire guy reading ever pumped into one? If a valve were closed or a line break in the lead-in would you pump into one or direct all water from the pumper to hose lines? Is using, not just hooking-up to, the FDC a standard fire-ground tactic? "Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be *determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including **those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, **three fifths of all other Persons* ." Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution> Still there but pretty much just ink on paper. On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 7:25 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > But what if the underground is a loop and has section valves plus the > riser valves? The Phoenix Fire Dept. makes us put a FDC on each > manifold instead of at the fire pump. The pump supplies the > underground loop for the entire building with multiple lead ins. There > are sectional gate valves in the loop, there is a gate valve in each > underground leadin, and there are gate valves in each riser on a > manifold. Phoenix says we can't have any gate valves between the FDC > and the "system" gate valves. They read > 8.17.2.4.3 and stop there. As far as the PFD is concerned 8.17.2.4.4 > doesn't apply. > > What do you guys think? Can there be multiple gate valves between the > FDC and sprinkler systems? > > Ron F > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Charles > Thurston > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 3:27 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: FDC Arrangement > > Hello All, > > I tend to use these for these situations 8.17.2.4.4 is the key to them. > > 8.17.2.4.2 For single systems, the fire department connection shall be > installed as follows: > > (1) Wet system - on the system side of system control, check, and > alarm valves (see Figure A.8.16.1.1) > (2) Dry system - between the system control valve and the dry pipe > valve > (3) Preaction system - between the preaction valve and the check > valve on the system side of the preaction valve > (4) Deluge system - on the system side of the deluge valve > > 8.17.2.4.3 For multiple systems, the fire department connection shall be > connected between > the supply control valves and the system control valves. > > 8.17.2.4.4* The requirements of 8.17.2.4.2 and 8.17.2.4.3 shall not > apply where the fire department connection is connected to the underground > piping. > > > > > > > -- > Best regards, > Charles mailto:[email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
