Guys...we do not define concealed space as it is used in NFPA 13. Todd has revealed the continuing issue regarding the effectiveness of sprinklers for the sake of sprinklers. This brings us right back to earlier posts regarding the 4ft rule, and at what point do we proclaim "the pattern is developed" and sensitivity versus distribution etc etc. Where are the stats that tell us people die and buildings burn down when something like Todd's issue comes up. Is this a light hazard occupancy? Whats the difference between a non-combustible mechanical room (used as it is intended to be used) with a huge duct 18" off the ground and his issue? Chpt 8 has major issues when it comes to this entire subject and we have very little if any empirical data that supports what we have in there now...other than "people are not dying and buildings are not burning down so it must work"! We keep reaching for something to hang our hat so we don't get sued instead of asking what do we really get...the bang for the buck. So I put a head under a conference table cause the book said so...am I safer now? Have I raised or maintained the level of life safety prescribed for this occupancy because I put a sprig up under this 49" table? You can reach for hypothetical's all over the place...and I am sure someone has a story about a fire under a platform...but understand that we have fires in unsprinklered spaces allowed by the book! We don't hear about those do we...
Todd, call the AHJ, discuss the layout and come up with an agreed upon approach to the level of protection intended and needed if it is not black and white. Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS 520.971.2322 Cell Skype: steven.scandaliato -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd - Work Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 8:48 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: concealed space definition - part deux At what height does it cease to be a platform and become a table? If sprinklers are omitted from underneath the platform/table, would the ceiling system need to be calculated to 3000 sqft? Todd G Williams, PE Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT www.fpdc.com 860-535-2080 (ofc) > On Jan 8, 2014, at 9:30 AM, "Brad Casterline" <[email protected]> wrote: > > NFPA 73-2006 3.3.6 (partial): > > Concealed: > Rendered inaccessible by the structure or finish of the building. > > brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Denhardt [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 4:56 PM > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: concealed space definition > > I fully agree based on the 2013 edition. > > Thanks, > John August Denhardt P.E. > >> On Jan 7, 2014, at 4:26 PM, "G. Tim Stone" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Todd, >> >> I would consider this a Platform and apply 8.15.6, 2010 ed. >> >> Regards, >> G. Tim Stone >> >> G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC >> NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler >> Design and Consulting Services >> >> 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 >> CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 >> [email protected] >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> Steven >>> Scandaliato >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 4:20 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: RE: concealed space definition >>> >>> Today...it is whatever you and the AHJ agree on. Hopefully (fingers >>> crossed) we will have a clear definition in the next edition as we >>> are working at adding the "gaps and clouds" section and with this >>> will come >> new >>> definitions including concealed spaces and the 4ft rule. Hold your >> breath! >>> Haha. >>> >>> Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS >>> 520.971.2322 Cell >>> Skype: steven.scandaliato >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >>> Todd >> - >>> Work >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 3:12 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: concealed space definition >>> >>> Is there an official definition of a concealed space? Is a 10 ft x >>> 20 ft platform that is 9" off the ground but not enclosed on the >>> sides >> considered >>> a concealed space? >>> >>> Todd G Williams, PE >>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>> Stonington, CT >>> www.fpdc.com >>> 860-535-2080 (ofc) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum- >>> firesprinkler.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum- >>> firesprinkler.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
