And just to clarify about the Circulating Closed-Loop system and maintaining min 40F in some spaces-- I hope it would be acceptable that the temperature of the circulating water through these spaces was min 40F-- if the space itself was 40F we could use regular wet pipe.
-----Original Message----- From: Brad Casterline [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 4:08 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Calcium Chloride Loops? vent huh? now why didn't i think of that! That NIST res heads and Christmas trees report is giving me nightmares. It blows my mind that the HRR was 1.6 MW 10 seconds after ignition. The FPEs here tell me a FAST fire growth rate is conservative for Light Hazard, so I wondered how the above would compare to ULTRA FAST; (1600/.1876)^.5=~92 sec! I talked to an MEP engineer too about heat exchangers and small circulating pumps. Now my head is 'full of it' again ;) -----Original Message----- From: rongreenman . [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 3:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Calcium Chloride Loops? The Brits are playing around with mist for houses, and there's a whacko on the SFPE LinkedIn site that has a product that' supposed to everything you need, like live through the vent, by ventilating the fire. On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 10:54 AM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]>wrote: > My Bad, Mike! > > jgamble do you have anything definitive you could mail me off Forum? I > found > a bit of info-- might be old; what I saw was still in the questionable > phase. > > Has anyone designed a Circulating Closed-Loop System per NFPA 13?. We > cannot > use them where the temp is less than 40F, but maintaining 40F in some > spaces > a few months a year combined with clean wet sprinklers might be a 3rd > option > (for residential) to AF and DRY. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Cabral [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 11:10 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Calcium Chloride Loops? > > I was referring to the mfg. of the CPVC. Sorry for the confusion. > > Mike C > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Feb 2, 2014, at 9:47 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Reality! I don't think there is a specific manufacturer because if there > were they would have been Sponsoring a lot of tests the last few years. > This > is the stuff used on roads in Winter- it seems to dislike evergreen trees > though. There is a bit more info I think if we search the archives for > "Calcium Chloride antifreeze protection". We have just GOT to find a 3rd > alternative to AF and DRY for residential, in my view. > > > >> On Feb 2, 2014, at 9:19 PM, Mike Cabral <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> Don't know about compatibility with CPVC that would need to be checked > out with the manufacture. However, you still need to screw the head into a > fitting and then there is the seal on the sprinkler head. In my view this > is > a non starter. > >> > >> Mike > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 7:20 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Thanks again by the way Mike . And from experience in New Zealand it > was > pointed out that it can wreak havoc (corrosion) on steel/iron. And Ron G > questioned the MSDS (but the Navy eats it up, and 22 to zip Seahawks at the > half?) > >>> The point is good luck and fortune getting 'regular' antifreeze U.L. > Listed now... > >>> > >>>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 6:15 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Ya Mike this is one of the good responses I mentioned and the main > drawback I have brooded over- we can put rovers on Mars but we can't keep > NaCl2 in pipe? How about CPVC? > >>>> > >>>>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 5:56 PM, Mike Cabral <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> As I recall Calcium Chloride is very hard to contain. It will weep > out > of perfect threaded connection, packing glands etc. Very slippery stuff. > >>>>> > >>>>> Mike C > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>>>> > >>>>>> On Feb 2, 2014, at 12:19 PM, Brad Casterline > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> In Sep 2010 I posted 'Calcium Chloride Loops'? > >>>>>> Somewhere along the line the thread got renamed, but there was some > good responses exposing the drawbacks to it replacing combustible > antifreeze > first. > >>>>>> My (lack of) money is on overcoming these drawbacks beating any U.L. > Listed alcohol based fluid to market-- for residential anyway. > >>>>>> I imagine 1) no city tap hence no tapping fee or BFP, 2) freeze > protection to -40F, 3) small Gallon high PSI pressure tanks hence K=2.8, 4) > limit the heat release rate of the most challenging residential fire to 1.6 > MW , meaning the wet stuff is on the red stuff at about 10 seconds for a > small room and maybe twice that for a big room. > >>>>>> If I were a maker of auto sprinkler system things (Residential > Department) this is the direction I would be looking. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Brad > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
