This is what the NFPA 20 - 2013 states: 4.20.1.2* Where water usage or discharge is not permitted for the duration of the test specified in Chapter 14, the outlet shall be used to test the pump and suction supply and determine that the system is operating in accordance with the design.
A.4.20.1.4 The hose valves of the fire pump test header should be located on the building exterior. This is because the test discharge needs to be directed to a safe outdoor location, and to protect the fire pumps, controllers, and so forth, from accidental water spray. In instances where damage from theft or vandalism is a concern, the test header hose valves can be located within the building but outside of the fire pump room if, in the judgment of the AHJ, the test flow can be safely directed outside the building without undue risk of water spray to the fire pump equipment. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rongreenman . Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 7:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: pump test header valves This strikes me as somewhat counter-productive. Even in this mild climate (PacNW coastal) we do experience freezing event os long enough duration to freeze things. Even a slight leak in the control valve to the test header can fill the header and valves sufficiently between tests that damage could occur. There's a reason to allow them in the room. What's a good reason to not? On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 3:01 PM, John Denhardt <[email protected]>wrote: > NFPA 20 was modified recently. It does not allow the header in the room. > I was told the intent was not to allow the fire hose connection in the room > under any situation. We used to install the header in the room all the time. > > John > > > John August Denhardt, P.E., FSFPE > Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated > 5113 Berwyn Road > College Park, Maryland 20740 > Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136 > Mobile Telephone Number: 301-343-1457 > FIRE SPRINKLERS SAVE LIVES - Can you live without them? > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 5:58 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: pump test header valves > > Or, if possible keep headed in the pump room without valves, run hoses out > to a truck mounted test rack with hose gates on the rack. This way the > person reading the pitot can adjust the valves, > Sent from my iPhone3200 > USA Parkway > McCarran NV 89434 > United States > > > On Apr 9, 2014, at 12:49 PM, "John Denhardt" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Funny but true story: > > > > I had a client who was worried about security with the test header > penetrating the exterior of the building. They had us remove the test > header after each test and store in the fire pump/mechanical room. We were > instructed to install a blind flange using sealant on the bolts so the > blind flange would not be easily removed. Well, the client decided to have > the area cleaned up. To everyone surprise, when showed up for the annual > fire pump system test, no test header was in the room. After the > investigation, the employee that cleaned the room said he did not know what > it was but it was big, heavy and had brass valves. He made the decision to > throw it away. > > > > Amazing - you can not make this stuff up! > > > > John > > > > > > John August Denhardt, P.E., FSFPE > > Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated > > 5113 Berwyn Road > > College Park, Maryland 20740 > > Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136 > > Mobile Telephone Number: 301-343-1457 > > FIRE SPRINKLERS SAVE LIVES - Can you live without them? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of David Autry > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 2:32 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: pump test header valves > > > > LOL, I was think of one that I did, that had sixteen (16) valves. > > > > > > David Autry > > > > Meininger Fire Protection Inc. > > 2521 W L St. Suite No.4 > > Lincoln, Ne 68522 > > Voice (402) 466-2616 > > Fax (402) 466-2617 > > [email protected] > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > rongreenman . > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 12:43 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: pump test header valves > > > > Too bad, I was liking the 2 1/2" plastic pipe caps idea a lot. The > > removing the entire test header is Ok but that has to be at least two and > > probably three guys on anything bigger that a couple of three valves. > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Bobby McCullough < > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >> My mistake. The 2.5" plastic caps are hose threads & installed on the > >> valve where only the caps were stolen, which is common. I only have a > >> few projects with valves stolen & there we used threaded ductile caps > >> on the nipples & locked the valves in the pump room. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> Ben Young > >> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 12:05 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: pump test header valves > >> > >> Bobby, > >> > >> Do you mean screw-on PVC caps, or the plastic break caps for FDC snoots? > >> > >> Thanks for the feeback everyone, I didn't realize this was so common. > >> I'll have to start recommending this to some of our clients in high > >> theft areas from now on. > >> > >> > >> Benjamin Young > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Bobby McCullough > >> <[email protected] > >>> wrote: > >> > >>> We use 2.5" plastic caps. Not much value at the scrap yard. Take > >>> the > >> > >>> valves in the pump room and use a bicycle cable & lock to keep them > >>> from wandering off. > >>> > >>> Bobby McCullough > >>> Atlanta Sprinkler > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >>> Morey, Mike > >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 8:49 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: RE: pump test header valves > >>> > >>> They make test header outlets with male threaded outlets (basically > >>> the opposite of an FDC) with hose caps that you remove and then > >>> screw on hose valves that have a female swivel on the inlet side. > >>> Of course > >> > >>> there's still the risk of someone stealing the hose caps and/or > >>> brass adapteer fittings that provide the male hose thread, but at > >>> least the valves aren't sitting out there too. > >>> > >>> Mike Morey, CFPS, SET > >>> Planner Scheduler/Designer > >>> BMWC Constructors, Inc. > >>> 1740 W. Michigan St, Indianapolis, IN 46222 > >>> O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.586.8111 > >>> [email protected] | www.bmwc.com > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: [email protected] > >>> <[email protected]> on behalf of Ben > >>> Young <[email protected]> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 8:40 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: pump test header valves > >>> > >>> Last week I was at an ASCET meeting where a pump presentation was > >> given. > >>> > >>> Someone asked the presenter if it was allowed to remove the test > >>> header valves and keep them in the pump room to stop them from being > >> stolen. > >>> > >>> The presenter and few other attendees chimed in that this was ok, > >>> and nothing in 20 or 25 said the valves had to be constantly in place. > >>> > >>> I didn't think of it at the time, but now I'm asking myself how then > >>> do you keep debris out of the test header? The only thing I can > >>> think > >> > >>> of is that you would have to cap the nipples or if you remove the > >>> nipples, plug the holes in the test header. This sounds like it > >>> will cause problems down the road to me. > >>> > >>> Have you guys ever seen this done before? > >>> > >>> Benjamin Young > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> kl > >>> er > >>> .org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> kl > >>> er > >>> .org > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > >>> kl > >>> er.org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > >> er > >> .org > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> > >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > >> er.org > > > > > > > > -- > > Ron Greenman > > Instructor > > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > > Bates Technical College > > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > > > 253.680.7346 > > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > > > Member: > > ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC > > > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > > > > A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, > > inventor and engineer (1876-1958) > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o > > rg > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 [email protected] http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
