Right on sprinkler brother. I start my 40th year as a Designer at the end of this month, and I will attend my first convention next month. The last time I googled 'average FD Hero response time' I think I got something like 11 minutes, and that is why I sleep better at night.
> On May 20, 2014, at 8:11 PM, "Cahill, Christopher" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > When all the lawyers are gone! And everything back to Hammurabi is repealed!! > I've got things to lose and there are VERY few reasons for me to risk those. > > Forum, no problem, we're all friends I've never met here, well except for a > few. > > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Brad Casterline > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 8:04 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Area/Density Method and Walls > > Chris, I hope you meant for this to go to The Forum, not just me so I am > trying my hand at re-directing it. > Isn't it time we start seeing where semantics might be trying to over-ride > physics? > >> On May 20, 2014, at 7:44 PM, "Cahill, Christopher" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Trust me, my opinion is the same, damn near any wall will stop the heat >> flow long enough to get the right heads to operate. This is strictly a code >> question. I'm OK and good at separating Code from opinion or even reality >> in many cases. Reality is wall will stop the heads on the other side for an >> hour but Code seems to be silent. OK when the unrated steel holding up wall >> falls in 15 minutes assuming the sprinkler don't actually operate reality is >> the 1 hour wall falls in 15 minutes. OK the valve is open, sprinklers >> operate and the wall never fails until the municipal water supply runs out >> so all this is moot in the real reality. I sleep better following Code. >> >> Chris >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Brad Casterline >> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 7:33 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: Area/Density Method and Walls >> >> The reason I ask Chris is, the calculation method sprung Not from "how fast >> does an accidental fire get how hot", but "if we make the second piece inch >> and a quarter can we reduce the main size a notch or two, and still get the >> same water?" And I hear the first remote areas were round! I would consider >> any barrier to the fire-driven heat flow, rated or not. >> >>> On May 20, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Good water or bad? >>> >>>> On May 20, 2014, at 7:12 PM, "Cahill, Christopher" <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I can't believe I'm asking this question after all these years. Anyway, >>>> swallowing pride and asking. >>>> >>>> 2010 NFPA 13 strict Density/Area method 11.2.3.2 and 22.4.4.1.1. Great >>>> big room being subdivided. Existing system with a new wall added between >>>> heads on a BL. Contractor had to add a head on one side to preserve the >>>> existing spacing (area) of the heads. Without head over 130 sq.ft. I >>>> take the 1.2 ^.5 of the area and get 46.5' required along the BL. >>>> Original system lets say calc'd 5 heads on the BL. But now in the same >>>> 46.5' there are 6 heads on the BL. Do I ignore the wall and require a new >>>> calc? What if the wall is rated 1 hour do I ignore it? >>>> >>>> I looked all over and can't seem to find anything definitive. Room design >>>> is out so not a consideration. 22.4.4.1.1.1 simply says all the heads in >>>> the 46.5'. I can't find anything that says either to count the wall as a >>>> break so measure 46.5' from the wall in each direction and still see if >>>> there are 5 head or ignore it and there are now 6 heads. I find 11.1.2 >>>> that clarifies to extend the density or not. I don't think that's >>>> applicable exactly. The question is not about whether to extend the >>>> density on either side. Let's just say it's all OH. >>>> >>>> It gets a little more complex as on the one side of the wall they cut a >>>> head in on the BL but on the other side there is a perpendicular new wall >>>> and they come off same BL and arm over to two more head so if I ignore the >>>> walls there are now 8 heads off the 1 BL. >>>> >>>> Prefer a code section or written reference 'cuz this is going to be a big >>>> deal if we ignore the walls. Ordinarily with unrated walls they are >>>> ignored in density/area (of course can't find that reference). I think >>>> I'm getting tripped up with the rated portion? Or maybe I'm just tired???? >>>> >>>> Chris Cahill, PE* >>>> Associate Fire Protection Engineer >>>> Burns & McDonnell >>>> Phone: 952.656.3652 >>>> Fax: 952.229.2923 >>>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>> www.burnsmcd.com<http://www.burnsmcd.com/> >>>> *Registered in: MN >>>> >>>> >>>> Proud to be #14 on FORTUNE's 2014 List of 100 Best Companies to Work For >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
