One minor correction - NFSA proposal (which is supported by the water supply 
task group) has language that will be in the body and the annex of the 
standard.  My task group (chapters 23 and 24) has discussed this proposal and 
will offer our input at the meeting next week.  It will be interesting to see 
what direction the committee goes with this topic.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On 
Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 3:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: to Pitot or not to Pitot?

I didn't write it; look for a definition of "qualified" as used in NFPA
25 and you won't find that either.   NFPA standards currently reference
Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, so the "official"
definition of appropriate would be, " right or suited for some purpose
or situation".   So if there are known seasonal fluctuations and/or
pressure curves that reflect highest demand windows during the day (in
SoCal that's often mid-morning) then it would be appropriate to acquire
and factor that information when considering the water supply.

NFSA has made comments in the current cycle for NFPA 13 and 13R, to
include new guiding language in the annexes regarding safety factors in
water supplies.   NFPA 14 in first draft adopted a proposal that
addresses the seasonal and peak day demand issue, but not without
resistance from contractor members of the TC who (correctly) noted that
sometimes it's not possible to acquire that information because water
purveyors can't or won't provide it.  We're getting there, but I don't
think it's incumbent on NFPA to instill conscience or high standards in
every user of their standards.   We have to take ownership of this
ourselves at some point.

SL 

 




-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Brad Casterline
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 12:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: to Pitot or not to Pitot?

"...shall be made as appropriate." 
Define 'appropriate'.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Leyton [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 1:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: to Pitot or not to Pitot?

It may well be a requirement, but back to my rhetorical question: who's
actually doing it?

SL




-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Mark A. Sornsin, P.E.
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: to Pitot or not to Pitot?

Oh, and BTW, taking those seasonal/local/whatever fluctuations into
account IS noted in NFPA 13 - so one could argue correctly that it is a
requirement of "code" (assuming your code references NFPA 13).

Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection
Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 |
http://www.kfiengineers.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Steve Leyton
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 12:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: to Pitot or not to Pitot?


How many people, when requesting or performing a flow test or flow
model, specify that the values be measured at peak
seasonal and peak day demands?   How much fluctuation does a given water
system or zone experience in a day/week/month/year?  How many of us
review those fluctuations and factor them into a flow test once it's
taken?

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