Hi Jim, Can you cite such a legal proceeding ?
Thanks John Drucker - Mobile Email [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Cell/Text 732-904-6823 Jim Davidson <[email protected]> wrote: John, You are correct the most important is the measurement from the grade plane which is different than the measurement from the top of the pedestal. This trips up a large number of design professionals and contractors. Yes the note at the bottom of Table 508.4 states: S = Buildings equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with Section 903.3.1.1. Paragraph 903.3.1.1 only addresses NFPA 13 sprinkler systems. Where the provisions of this code require that a building or portion thereof be equipped throughout with an automatic sprinkler system in accordance with this section, sprinklers shall be installed throughout in accordance with NFPA 13 except as provided in Section 903.3.1.1.1. Be careful when looking at "Pedestal" construction in the sprinkler industry, because "after the fire" there will be experts that will state that you have interpreted the IBC incorrectly and therefore installed the wrong sprinkler system if a NFPA 123 R was used. Additionally, if the combustible concealed space between the ceiling and the floor above when using open web wood joist is not sprinklered the building owner can come back in a construction defect lawsuit against the contractor(s) involved, and require the contractor(s) to repay the owner for a defective sprinkler system installation costs included are: demolition of walls, ceilings and improperly installed sprinkler system, tenant relocation costs, loss of income, new sprinkler system installation, new architectural finishes, and of course lawyer fees (yours and theirs). Have a fire safe day> Regards Jim DAVIDSON ASSOCIATES Fire Protection Engineering P. O. Box 4010 Code Consultants Greenville, DE 19807-0010 Medical Gas Systems Engineering (302) 994-9500 Fax (302) 994-3414 CONFIDENTIALITY This report and any attachments are confidential and also may be privileged. If you are not the named recipient, or have otherwise received this report in error, please destroy the report, notify the sender immediately, and do not disclose its contents to any other person, use them for any purpose, or store or copy them in any medium. Thank you for your cooperation. -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker - Home Sent: Friday, August 01, 2014 3:15 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: 6 Story Hotel Notwithstanding the subject "6 Story Hotel" reference ??? Table 508 of the 2012 IBC addresses separation of occupancies for both sprinklered and non sprinklered buildings. It is correct that this table only recognizes sprinkler systems pursuant to IBC 903.3.1.1 (NFPA-13) for the purposes of reducing the passive fire separation from 2 hours to 1 Hour. However when addressing Pedestal Buildings, IBC 510 (Special Provisions) applies not 508; IBC 510.1 General. The provisions in Sections 510.2 through 510.9 shall permit the use of special conditions that are exempt from, or modify, the specific requirements of this chapter regarding the allowable building heights and areas of buildings based on the occupancy classification and type of construction, provided the special condition complies with the provisions specified in this section for such condition and other applicable requirements of this code. The provisions of Sections 510.2 through 510.8 are to be considered independent and separate from each other. 510.2 Horizontal building separation allowance. A building shall be considered as separate and distinct buildings for the purpose of determining area limitations, continuity of fire walls, limitation of number of stories and type of construction where all of the following conditions are met: 1. The buildings are separated with a horizontal assembly having a fire-resistance rating of not less than 3 hours. (Theres six more and an exception with three.) So in summary, and again speaking only of the pedestal and not fire separation distances, height, area, standpipes, allowable opening..... Pedestal, Type I construction, NFPA13 under the pedestal, Building on the Pedestal any allowable type of construction (yes wood), NFPA-13R system above the pedestal. Last but not least, and don't forget.... Number of Stories=measured from the pedestal, Height = measured from average grade. Roland, I have a nice powerpoint on this that I am willing to share with AFSA...... one more thing, we have to wait on the adoptions of the 2015 IBC. John John Drucker, CET Assistant Construction Official Fire Protection Subcode Official Building/Fire/Electrical Inspector Borough of Red Bank Red Bank, New Jersey Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Cell/Text: 732-904-6823 -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, August 1, 2014 1:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: 6 Story Hotel IT has been awhile since I looked at this but I think you are reading that section out of context. I think there are 2 trade-offs including the reduction of the passive rating that is restricted to the presence of a full 13 system throughout BUT the IBC considers a building protected throughout even when a 13R system is installed. Awaiting input from our code boys and gals. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Steele, Andrew <[email protected]> wrote: > There are some other building code (and possibly even insurance risk assessment) issues that are likely to arise when using a NFPA #13R system; a 13R system IS NOT a fully protected building. For example, ICC Table 508 "required separation of occupancies" does not recognize 13R systems, so if the building has or gets multiple uses, it's a "non-sprinkled" building, typically doubling the required separation . > > A. 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