AMEN -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hill Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:42 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Change Orders
I once had an A/E argue with me about coordination on a project and told me to just go by his coordinated plans. I told my installer to go get a core driller, I then pointed to a spot on the exterior wall and said I need a 6" hole right there. The A/E asked why the hell I needed a hole there, so I explained since the existing building is actually 6' to 8' shorter than what he claims (depending on which dimensions you use), that I need to install this "coordinated" piping out there. We never saw that guy again. The problem today, as I see it, is everything is driven by time. Contractors agree to ridiculous 4 week schedules not realizing (or perhaps they do) that sprinkler plan review takes 2-3 weeks and you have to wait another 2-3 weeks for your scheduled hydro. Oh, they release on the project 2 weeks in after they realize sprinklers are in the way of the new walls. It is a struggle to maintain quality control when you are always trying to catch up. I am guessing this happens with all aspects of the construction industry from initial architectural design all the way through construction and installation. Our industry is unique. Most other trades can work off of the approved building plans and permit, not so for sprinkler and alarm, we are required to generate our own drawings and apply for separate permits. This is exactly how it should be. Would sure be nice if construction didn't start until ALL permits were obtained. It amazes me how many times contractors get a demo permit and go so far as to have all the walls one sided with drywall and all the other trades roughed in before the building permit has been issued and then scream up and down how sprinkler is holding them up. Yet, I still can't even submit my plans because they do not have an approved building permit, which is the very first thing the AHJ checks when we submit our application. Of course there are exceptions to everything and not all contractors are ruthless, but it is harder to find the good ones. Anyone else been in this industry long enough to remember when it was fun? Fun is not how I would describe the last 6-8 years. Mike Hill -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Justin Stewart Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:04 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Change Orders Michael, You hit the nail on the head I was just kind of curious if it was just us that had that issue and if I was missing something. I have also had a GC recently tell me well your designer should have caught that and asked the A/E. I went as far as going back through the entire bid documents and found the issue and called the mechanical engineer himself and he didn't really tell me why there were so many conflicts on this project until I told him I was in school for mechanical engineering as well and just wanted to learn how to avoid these kind of issues. Long story short he told me it was the structural engineer and no one overlays anything anymore. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Michael Hill <mi...@phoenixfp.net> wrote: > > In our recent experience, it doesn't matter if you get an approved > change order or not. The GC just refuses to pay for it at the end of > the project claiming they couldn't get it approved by the building owner. > > In general, it has to be determined why the sprinkler pipe is in > conflict with other trades. If there is any chance that the sprinkler > company is at fault you may as well move the pipe. It usually isn't > worth ruining a relationship with a contractor over it. If it is > solely someone else's fault AND a substantial amount of work to > correct then we would pursue a change order and would not do any work > until it was approved. Small changes are just made next time we are on > site, usually not worth arguing over, no matter who is at fault. > > All the rules are subject to change from project to project and from > GC to GC. > > Mike Hill > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Justin Stewart > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 10:00 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Change Orders > > I am just curious how everyone else in the fire sprinkler industry > deals with change orders. For example, everything for a project is > prefabricated besides the return bends. Say you have an issue with the > HVAC and your main has to be moved how do you go about that? Do you request for a change order? > Even if in your quote you have a clause stating after material has > been ordered anything extra for moving pipe is an extra to the > contract amount. > Does this fall under coordination? Thank you very much for any replies > in advance. > > Sent from my iPhone > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
