I believe if you have to have a sprinkler system. The A/E should be required to do the shop drawings and everything so it will be coordinated a little better and they can overlay it with their drawings.
Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 14, 2016, at 10:55 AM, Rocci Cetani 3 <roc...@norcalfire.com> wrote: > > Glad to see we aren't the only company dealing with the EXACT same > issue.......how long is it going to take before architects/builders realize > they need to get sprinkler contractors involved a lot earlier in the > process. > > Rocci Cetani III, CET > Designer > Water-Based Fire Protections Systems Layout, Nicet Level III > > Northern California Fire Protection Services Inc. > 16840 Joleen Way Bldg. A > Morgan Hill, CA 93037 > P-(408) 776-1580 EXT.111 > F-(408) 776-1590 > > > roc...@norcalfire.com > www.norcalfire.com > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any document accompanying it may > contain confidential information > belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of > individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or > the employee or agent responsible to deliver this message to the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying or taking of > any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please > immediately notify us by telephone to arrange for return of the documents. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Michael Hill > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 8:42 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Change Orders > > I once had an A/E argue with me about coordination on a project and told me > to just go by his coordinated plans. I told my installer to go get a core > driller, I then pointed to a spot on the exterior wall and said I need a 6" > hole right there. The A/E asked why the hell I needed a hole there, so I > explained since the existing building is actually 6' to 8' shorter than what > he claims (depending on which dimensions you use), that I need to install > this "coordinated" piping out there. We never saw that guy again. > > The problem today, as I see it, is everything is driven by time. Contractors > agree to ridiculous 4 week schedules not realizing (or perhaps they do) that > sprinkler plan review takes 2-3 weeks and you have to wait another 2-3 weeks > for your scheduled hydro. Oh, they release on the project 2 weeks in after > they realize sprinklers are in the way of the new walls. It is a struggle to > maintain quality control when you are always trying to catch up. I am > guessing this happens with all aspects of the construction industry from > initial architectural design all the way through construction and > installation. Our industry is unique. Most other trades can work off of the > approved building plans and permit, not so for sprinkler and alarm, we are > required to generate our own drawings and apply for separate permits. This > is exactly how it should be. Would sure be nice if construction didn't start > until ALL permits were obtained. It amazes me how many times contractors get > a demo permit and go so far as to have all the walls one sided with drywall > and all the other trades roughed in before the building permit has been > issued and then scream up and down how sprinkler is holding them up. Yet, I > still can't even submit my plans because they do not have an approved > building permit, which is the very first thing the AHJ checks when we submit > our application. > > Of course there are exceptions to everything and not all contractors are > ruthless, but it is harder to find the good ones. > > Anyone else been in this industry long enough to remember when it was fun? > Fun is not how I would describe the last 6-8 years. > > Mike Hill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] > On Behalf Of Justin Stewart > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 11:04 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Change Orders > > Michael, > > You hit the nail on the head I was just kind of curious if it was just us > that had that issue and if I was missing something. I have also had a GC > recently tell me well your designer should have caught that and asked the > A/E. I went as far as going back through the entire bid documents and found > the issue and called the mechanical engineer himself and he didn't really > tell me why there were so many conflicts on this project until I told him I > was in school for mechanical engineering as well and just wanted to learn > how to avoid these kind of issues. Long story short he told me it was the > structural engineer and no one overlays anything anymore. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 14, 2016, at 9:40 AM, Michael Hill <mi...@phoenixfp.net> wrote: >> >> In our recent experience, it doesn't matter if you get an approved >> change order or not. The GC just refuses to pay for it at the end of >> the project claiming they couldn't get it approved by the building owner. >> >> In general, it has to be determined why the sprinkler pipe is in >> conflict with other trades. If there is any chance that the sprinkler >> company is at fault you may as well move the pipe. It usually isn't >> worth ruining a relationship with a contractor over it. If it is >> solely someone else's fault AND a substantial amount of work to >> correct then we would pursue a change order and would not do any work >> until it was approved. Small changes are just made next time we are on >> site, usually not worth arguing over, no matter who is at fault. >> >> All the rules are subject to change from project to project and from >> GC to GC. >> >> Mike Hill >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] >> On Behalf Of Justin Stewart >> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 10:00 AM >> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> Subject: Change Orders >> >> I am just curious how everyone else in the fire sprinkler industry >> deals with change orders. For example, everything for a project is >> prefabricated besides the return bends. Say you have an issue with the >> HVAC and your main has to be moved how do you go about that? Do you > request for a change order? >> Even if in your quote you have a clause stating after material has >> been ordered anything extra for moving pipe is an extra to the >> contract > amount. >> Does this fall under coordination? Thank you very much for any replies >> in advance. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> er.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl >> er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
