You need 30 gpm at the sprinklers in the paint booth duct. That is a
lot of pressure with a 5.6K sprinkler. So that would be one reason for
the larger threads....larger orifice...lower starting pressure.
Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
480-505-9271
fax: 866-430-6107
email:[email protected]
http://www.mfpdesign.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692
Send large files to us via: https://www.hightail.com/u/MFPDesign
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/travismack
On 8/9/2016 2:48 PM, Douglas Hicks wrote:
OK to change the topic a bit. 1. I have noticed that some duct,
plenum. and work spaces have 3/4 “ threads, which I assume is ELO.
And some do not have ELO heads. Why?
*From:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:27 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: Paint spray application
You’re welcomed to install how you see fit but spraying inside a duct
is a lot different than out in a room or on a dock.
It’s a comparison of apples to elephants.
You have no issues or concersn about whether or not the water spray
can reach the other side of the duct or whether or not heat will
collect and set it off in such a confined space. So if you install it
at 3 o’clock, 9 o’clock or 12 o’clock it really doesn’t matter as far
as discharge is concerned.
Rooms and space rules have no application inside a piece of ductwork.
*Craig L. Prahl**
*Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
*CH2M*
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
[email protected]
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *IPA
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 5:18 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL]
I don't find the lack of an orientation in 22.4.2 a compelling enough
reason to install it horizontally especially since 3.6.2.3 states that
pendant sprinklers are to spray water 'downward against the
deflector.' The old dry pendant at the dock scenario at least has it
at a 45 degree angle but not horizontal.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:47 PM, <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Inside a duct no matter the orientation, the sprinkler sees the
same shape and the discharge will more than adequately cover the
small space.
Look at 22.4.2 in 2013 edition of 13.
Orientation is not specified. Now you might pick a location based
on drainage or other factors. But there is no specific NFPA
constraint.
*Craig L. Prahl**
*Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
*CH2M*
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540 <tel:864.920.7540>
Fax - 864.920.7129 <tel:864.920.7129>
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On
Behalf Of *IPA
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 2:28 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL]
So, where is the code section that says pendant sprinklers can be
installed in any orientation in ducts? I've just scoured '13 and
can't find it.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Bob <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Brad,
It’s all good. I tend to agree with the QR on small booths.
Especially since we are calc’ing for the worst case that all
sprinklers will flow anyway. Seems that opening faster would
be a good idea, but then again I’m not an engineer, just a guy
who draws lots of lines and circles.
Thank you,
Bob Knight, CET III
208-318-3057 <tel:208-318-3057>
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On
Behalf Of *Brad Casterline
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 12:21 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: Paint spray application
Yes indeed.
I knew as soon as I hit send it was a bad idea.
I have thought for several years there should be an exception
for no QR in EH, ever since I understood the reasoning.
I should have more soberly made my point that I think small
paint booths are an excellent application -- if you calc all
heads flowing why not use low temp QR? It would be the next
best thing to open head deluge, would it not?
And I apologize for the name calling and meaness of spirit,
FWIW. There is no excuse for that. A big part of how I feel
about myself is based on how i act on this Forum.
Thanks,
Brad
On Aug 9, 2016 1:02 PM, "Bob" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I have an example of one that I did in Salt Lake recently. It
has 144 sprinklers in it. This counts all the exhaust ducts
and stacks plus the ceiling sprinklers.
Thank you,
Bob Knight, CET III
208-318-3057 <tel:208-318-3057>
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On
Behalf Of *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Tuesday, August 09, 2016 6:29 AM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: Paint spray application
How many example of industrial spray booths with more than 40
heads would you like Brad? They exist and are not all that rare.
*Craig L. Prahl**
*Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
*CH2M*
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540 <tel:864.920.7540>
Fax - 864.920.7129 <tel:864.920.7129>
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]] *On
Behalf Of *Brad Casterline
*Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2016 8:39 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: Paint spray application [EXTERNAL]
Show me a spray booth with forty sprinklers Steve
On Aug 8, 2016 7:36 PM, "Steve Leyton"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Sure. And fires that can be spread by running fuel such as
plastics and FCL’s (not to mention BLEVE’s) can set off 40
standard response sprinklers in a minute. I can only
imagine the sheer volume of responding sprinklers and
skipping that could occur based on how smooth or bumpy the
roof/ceiling assembly is if you started wantonly plugging
QR control-mode sprinklers into EH fires. (On paper) MDD
= .80 ADD = .275
My opinion only,
Steve L.
*From:*Sprinklerforum
[mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>]
*On Behalf Of *Brad Casterline
*Sent:* Monday, August 08, 2016 5:17 PM
*To:* [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: Paint spray application
Shakey ground is all i have ever known Ken.
I am no more a professional than you are.
THINK MAN!
small spaces with fast fires need the fastest acting
sprinklers we can muster.
I've been in court myself a couple times- neither one over
sprinklers though--
please stop being so stodgy!
On Aug 8, 2016 7:05 PM, "Parsley Consulting"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I don't know, Brad. You're standing on pretty shaky
ground there.
The decision to use QR sprinklers in an extra hazard
occpuancy is a direct contradiction to 8.4.1.1.2 of NFPA
13, including the 2016 edition, or a similar section
number, at least as far back as the 1999 edition. If you
install QR sprinklers in a space that is legitimately
classed as an extra hazard occupancy, aren't you directly
contradicting this particular section of NFPA 13? The
handbook provides the following explanatory text on the topic:
Extra hazard occupancies are characterized by the
probability of fast-developing fires with high heat
release rates that have the potential to open a large
number of quick-response sprinklers before the sprinklers
have time to control the fire. The operation of a large
number of sprinklers in a relatively short time period has
the potential to overtax the system. For this reason,
quick-response sprinklers using the area
design method of Chapter 11 are not permitted for the
protection of extra hazard occupancies. Additional
perspective on this can be found in the discussion of
safety margin found in B.2.1.
Further, I'm not aware of any QR sprinkler which has been
tested and listed by an NRTL for use in protecting extra
hazard occupancies. Barring that, to follow the guidance
you're suggesting the contractor/designer/installer has to
violate both NFPA 13 AND the listing of the sprinkler. I'm
not suggesting the gloom and doom drama of "people could
die", however it does concern me greatly when I read
suggestions to ignore both texts.
My thought about that is to make sure your insurance is
paid up, and have a good lawyer on retainer. I don't know
of a good defense while sitting in the witness chair to a
question similar to, "Are you telling me you ignored the
applicable law and the manufacturer's recommendations for
the installation of that sprinkler?"
When I have nightmares I think about having to answer
questions similar to that.
*Ken Wagoner, SET
Parsley Consulting
350 West 9th Avenue, Suite 206
Escondido, California 92025
Phone 760-745-6181 <tel:760-745-6181>
Visit our website <http://www.parsleyconsulting.com/> *
On 08/08/2016 4:17 PM, Brad Casterline wrote:
We're not suppose to use QR in EH either but I say
balderdash.
That is for big open spaces beacase you could have a
bunch of heads going off way over there when the
emergency is way over here. Small spaces with fast
fires are better off if you use low temp qr and calc
every head possible going off
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