To me, liability for operating outside of the standard. Where do you draw the line? Over spaced, Obstructed? Did you get a current flow test and verify the adequacy by running new calcs? Will the structure hold the system? Did you verify the mega-watt release of heat from the fuel loading you witnessed?
Hence why our jobs as NFPA 25 inspectors is to answer two questions. 1. Is the sprinkler system in good mechanical condition 2. Will water flow in the event of a fire? NOT how much, just if it will flow. Thats it. The fact the building has a CO tells us the system meets the adopted standard. If you notice any items that are questionable, you can mark as an observation on a piece of paper. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: (602) 337-0721<(602)%20337-0721> C: (307) 236-8249<(307)%20236-8249> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2024 8:33 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Unprotected areas Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize and trust the sender. ________________________________ So what is worse, liability for operating outside a standard or the liability for not reporting a dangerous even if it is outside of that standard? Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Dec 22, 2024 at 8:19 PM, <Matthew Willis1<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: That is why we operate as Technicians, with predescribed action all written out for us. Diligence dictates we cry foul for sure. Just note as an observation. The NFPA 25 report is not the plcae for it. Now, this is a bit different in LA. One of the states I worked in as an NFPA 25 inspector. LA is a life safety state. So, we are Life Safety Inspectors. There are clear Negligence, and Gross Negligence requirements in obtaining the State License. But in the end, operating outside of the adopted, predescribed standard, is a dangerous liability walk I do not care to take. R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: [(602)%20337-0721](602) 337-0721 C: [(307)%20236-8249](307) 236-8249 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ From: Fpdcdesign <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2024 8:14 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Unprotected areas Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize and trust the sender. ________________________________ I understand the requirements and limitations of 25. But let me ask this. If the inspector notices and obvious problem that is outside of 25 and does not report it. If a fire occurs that is caused or exacerbated by the problem that he noticed but did not report, what liability does he have. As a PE, if I notice a dangerous condition and do not reported, I can be held liable. Todd Williams Fire Protection Design/Consulting Stonington, CT 860-608-4559 On Dec 22, 2024 at 7:57 PM, <Matthew Willis1<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Guys, this is a losing battle with Mike. He vents about how crappy our jobs are on other social media. It's a shame, I used to like corresponding with him. Mike, since our industry is so bad, and you are clearly making bank with your current position, might I suggest: https://www.petforums.co.uk/forums/dog-walking.85/<https://www.petforums.co.uk/forums/dog-walking.85/> [https://images.platforum.cloud/logos/petforums_co_uk_profile.png]<https://www.petforums.co.uk/forums/dog-walking.85/> Dog Walking - UK Pet Forums Forum<https://www.petforums.co.uk/forums/dog-walking.85/> Discuss everything regarding dog walking, from places to walk your dog, to help and advice in starting your own dog walking business. www.petforums.co.uk<http://www.petforums.co.uk> R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis, C.E.T. Ferguson Fire Design, LLC D: [(602)%20337-0721](602) 337-0721 C: [(307)%20236-8249](307) 236-8249 [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ From: Bob Caputo <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 20, 2024 2:41 PM To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers <[email protected]> Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Unprotected areas Caution: This email originated from outside of the organization. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you recognize and trust the sender. ________________________________ Read section 1.1.3 of NFPA 25. You’re inspecting what is there for wear and tear purposes. You are not verifying the design or installation of any system [https://www.dropbox.com/s/g4h8r7hdtsr6154/AFSA_L.png?raw=1] Bob Caputo, CFPS President American Fire Sprinkler Association p: 214-349-5965 ext124 w: firesprinkler.org<http://firesprinkler.org> [http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/facebook_sig.png]<https://www.facebook.com/firesprinkler.org> [http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/twitter_sig.png] <https://twitter.com/afsa/status/1039528345367732224> [http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/linkedin_sig.png] <https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-fire-sprinkler-association-afsa-> [http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/184235/dev_images/signature_app/instagram_sig.png] <https://www.instagram.com/firesprinklerorg> Train a safer, more efficient workforce. By enrolling your employees in the AFSA Apprenticeship Training Series for Sprinkler Fitters<https://www.firesprinkler.org/WWW/Education/Apprentice_Training/WWW/Education/Apprenticeship_Training.aspx?hkey=e88ef09e-d74c-407f-abcd-995aff866149>, you will reap the benefits of a qualified, professional installation crew. Well-trained employees will work smarter, increasing your company's productivity and, in turn, its profits. Learn more<https://www.firesprinkler.org/WWW/Education/Apprentice_Training/WWW/Education/Apprenticeship_Training.aspx?hkey=e88ef09e-d74c-407f-abcd-995aff866149>. On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 10:35 AM Brandon Bridgford <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: How do you approach unprotected areas in regards to ITM and NFPA 25. I know there was a discussion in the past regarding inspecting a system as is, rather than writing up deficiencies that have to do with system design. I have been told that this can open up more liability if you are not inspecting all design elements (i.e. density, hazard levels, etc.) Thank you! Brandon _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] _________________________________________________________ SprinklerForum mailing list: https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org<https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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