At 10:34 PM 12/14/2002 -0800, you wrote:
>Grahams wrote: > > > While I am pleased thus far with the performance of my radiant floors, I am > > not sure I would get it again, especially in concrete. I would prefer to > > have more access to the pipe . > > We discussed this issue in depth during the construction of our > house. The >compromise we made was to put the pipe for the upper floors directly beneath >the wooden subfloor, while we went with concrete downstairs. Truthfully, >however, the extra access is hardly worthwhile, as we'd have to tear the roof >away from the lower floors to gain access to the pipe. > > The people in the business told us that leaking pipe used to be a problem >when the grey plastic piping was used early in the radiant floor heating >industry's experience. Never experienced anyone trying that pipe, but heard about it, softens at 60 degree Celsius. >The red / orange plastic pipe they use now is supposed >to be much more durable, and without joints, has no opportunity to leak when >placed in concrete. I have 30 years experience from those special pipes, stands for 98 degree Celsius or more. It can be white / yellow also. > > While building my house I met a man looking > > for someone to repair his system- 2/3's was non functional (leaky). His > > also was encased in concrete with a marble tile covering. No one > > (plumber-HVAC) wanted to mess with it. I felt bad for him, he seemed like > > a nice little old man, but my plumber wouldn't go either. > > That's awful! > > > Also I am wondering about the efficiency of the system due to the way a > > concrete floor gets "poured" in reality. Supposedly the concrete wire > > (which the pipe is attached to) gets pulled up to the middle of the floor > > as the concrete is being poured. As I watched however, I would say that > > speed certainly takes a priority, and would be surprised if in many places > > the wire is not sitting at the bottom of the pad. Also makes me wonder what > > happened to my under the floor foam insulation as it has been heated by > > this wire/pex every winter. I had imagined walking on this heated floor > > would be like a big sun warmed rock. Uh, not so. The heat only goes out in > > strips- maybe 8" wide. Beside this warm strip, the floor is "stone" cold. > > :) Sort of odd to walk on w/o shoes , you find your kids walking on the > > little 8"paths. > > This is completely contrary to our experience. We made sure the > pipes were >looped out every 15 cm, and our lower floor is toasty warm--even in the >carpeted areas. (The tile flooring feels sultry under bare feet!) Our >concrete pad is insulated with that nasty, expensive foam board material. I restored a 1,100 sqm house without the insulation to utilize the thermal mass and it worked fine. Read about the history of this insulation layer on our site http://energysavingnow.com/ . It is cheaper and in your case much better to have a very simple indoor control system, because of the high thermal insulation of straw bales. The combination is a real large energy (cost) saver and smart. >Because heat rises, the lower floor of our house (where my boys have their >bedrooms) is considerably warmer than the upper floor. The thermal mass >of the >concrete, once warmed, retains its heat longer, so we have fewer temperature >swings downstairs. > > I cringed at all the concrete we used building this house. My only >philosophical relief comes from knowing that we wasted very little concrete, >whereas a lot drywall, vinyl siding (another compromise to suit local building >guidelines) and other materials went to the landfill. Most of the dimensional >lumber left over will be burned this winter to keep my in laws' house warm. I >hope to significantly lessen the environmental impact of the next house we >build. . . > > Meanwhile, everyone around me thinks I'm a fanatic. > > > The room temperature is fine though. In addition to the > > solar option, an outdoor wood stove can also be used as an option in > > suppling the heat for the pipes. > > I'd stay away from outdoor wood stoves. In order for a wood fire to burn >clean, it has to burn hot. Those outdoor boilers will "idle" (hence, smolder >and produce copious amounts of smoke) while waiting for the house to cool >down. It may be convenient for the home owner, but it's murderous on air >quality. > > A much better solution is to install a wood gasifying boiler. They're >expensive (around $10 000 U.S.), but will likely last a lifetime. Here's a >link to check: > > http://www.woodboilers.com/woodgas.html > > For you cogeneration fans with access to a lot of wood, a steam boiler >makes a lot of sense wherever the "waste" heat from steam can be used for >domestic heating and hot water. Hooked to a large tank for heat storage, a >decent sized wood boiler might be able to supply all of the household heating >and electricity requirements--and for a tight house with efficient appliances, >it might be able to do so without deforesting the local county! > > > A feature I added was to put floor drains in almost every room. My plumber > > complained, and talked me out of a few (I should have held my ground) but I > > love them. It is so much easier than mopping up dirty water- and the water > > goes directly to the drain tile, not the septic system. If you do this, do not ever connect it to any septic system, since the necessary water locks dries out fast in heated floor. Smells bad and it is hard to believe that anyone would do it, but I now live in Spain and here you see most of the things. > I let my wife read this because I couldn't understand why anyone > would get >a floor so wet that it would even have an opportunity to drain, and she >couldn't understand this either! I clean all the floors at home using a small >vacuum cleaner to get rid of dust, and a steam cleaner I bought at Sears. We >put nothing but fresh water in the steamer, and our floors clean beautifully >with this machine. (We have laminate flooring and tile upstairs, with >tile and >carpet downstairs. No, I don't use the steamer on the carpet!) The slight >skim of moisture on the floors when I'm done cleaning evaporates rather >quickly. We have a heat recovery ventilation system that exchanges air and >controls indoor humidity. If the system works with a heat pump like some Swedish ones, which I think it may do, since you control the humidity, it is a great energy saver. >(I wonder what our electric bill is going to be. . >. In our old house, an "all electric" home built in the 1970's, we used >around >20 kW hours per day. The people at BC Hydro couldn't believe we used so >"little" power, when they were boasting of "power smart" homes that used more >than twice what we did. I thought our power consumption was outrageous. . >. I >guess perspective is everything!) > > > I HATE drywall. (Joe from Building Science adores it's draft sealing > > qualities, however) It takes way too much labor, has too many steps- > > drywall, taping, sanding, painting. It was the worst part of the project > > and potentially the most expensive. > > I hear you and concur! The only single item that cost more than drywall >was the lumber to frame our house! > > > Later we > > wished we had used white tile board- (dry erase board) in the children's > > rooms. This makes a great wall you can write and erase- tape won't hurt it > > either. > > What a great idea! (We have a budding artist in the family who believes >that if daddy can paint a picture on the wall, he should be able to draw one >too!) > > > > > > > Here is my last link, I thought his ideas inspiring. I read about this > > place in Mother Earth News at the dentist > > > > http://www.cmpbs.org/ > > Cool place, Caroline! It sounds like you had better luck than I did in >getting some alternative ideas past the builder and the bank. Good for you! > >robert luis rabello >"The Edge of Justice" >Adventure for Your Mind >http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
