Derek, All the energy fuss doesn't cut ice. If it isn't sustainable, what is it? An experiment?
How much of your wheat is grown using water produced by reverse osmosis? Would this be possible if the Saudi Arabian economy were not sustained by the sales of oil to the rest of the world? Try the energy experience in the Sudan economy perhaps or Yeman and see how far it goes. The biggest places that are exporting food today have natural water and soil. These has been the traditional basis for food production since the beginning of time. Not energy alone. Energy helps but if you have nothing to eat, all the energy in the world doesn't do you a bit of good. You don't farm in a desert because there is insufficient water or organic matter in the sand to make the system work. Hydroponics does not compare with soil produced food in quality or cost. As an experiment, it might work fine but to produce food for 4 billion people it quickly fails. The problem with viewing the problem from only an energy standpoint is the saying, "to a man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail". Sustainability should be the watchword. Art ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments Hi, Unlimited energy leads to all other needs. The most essential raw product is energy. Once one has energy they can recycle water, make water, grow food in all sorts of ways, etc. I've lived in the desert for ten years. It was an eye opener to realize how dependent life in the desert is on energy, and how everything else pales. I live in Saudi...number one in the world at making potable water from the sea. They grow enough wheat to meet their own needs, and export the excess. Life is dependent on energy like nowhere else. Please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating this. I don't consider much this to be sustainable. But, I don't think it is wise to minimize the importance of energy as the fundamental building block under everything else. In the desert, it would be easily possible to harvest 50% of the incident light for electricity production and to farm with the remaining light. Brian is right on. The future energy production for the world could well come from worthless deserts, with a top layer of Photovoltaics and vast farms under the light collectors. The energy could possibly be exported by either microwaves or hydrogen pipelines. Regards, Derek > Brian, > > Before you invest in "worthless" desert islands, you better make sure you can > raise food on that island. Energy alone, whether hydrogen or electricity, makes > a poor meal even for an energy guru. > > Art Krenzel, P.E. > PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES > 10505 NE 285TH Street > Battle Ground, WA 98604 > 360-666-1883 voice > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:01 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or > Conservation Investments > > > If I had real money to invest, I'd be buying up "worthless" desert > land. Between solar and wind technology, there is enough energy > being wasted in the desert to do quite a bit of hydrogen conversion > for fuel cell cars, if this technology ever goes anywhere. At least > that's my bright idea of the past year or so. > > Brian > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, murdoch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone here have any ideas for investments in stocks > (anywhere in > > the world... does *not* have to be North America) that have a good > > sustainable technology or energy technology or conservation > angle? > > > > I am working on a project to collect and refine some ideas in this > > area, and there are a couple of roadblocks I've run into. > > > > For example, I was trying to think of a way, any way at all, to > invest > > in the idea of energy conservation in the general realm of > > locally-grown locally-consumed low-input high-output foods. But > how > > to do this? > > > > I started tossing around the idea of Whole Foods (WFMI on yahoo > U.S. > > stock boards) just because on balance one might end up shopping > there > > for foods that have been grown according to 'some' conservationist > > principles, lower Petroleum input, etc. If one buys eggs produced > > from range fed chickens, at least that's something. > > > > But putting aside that dissatisfying compromise, if anyone has any > > ideas, .... including 'outside the box' ideas of companies you've > seen > > practicing or selling some offbeat sustainable idea or product, .. > I'd > > be curious to hear it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
