Bob, The PREVAILING winds do move from west to east in both hemispheres due to the rotation of the earth. Hurricanes, which contain a large amount of energy, can move in a variety of directions - especially near the equator.
Note the following: http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/weather/A0849225.html trade winds, movement of air toward the equator, from the NE in the Northern Hemisphere and from the SE in the Southern Hemisphere. The trade winds originate on the equatorial sides of the horse latitudes, which are two belts of high air pressure, one lying between 25¡ and 30¡ north of the equator and the other lying between 25¡ and 30¡ south of it. The high air pressure in these belts forces air to move toward a belt of low air pressure along the equator called the doldrums. The air converging at the doldrums rises high over the earth, recirculates poleward, and sinks back toward the earth's surface in the region of the horse latitudes, thus completing a cycle. The air does not move directly north or south because it is deflected by the rotation of the earth. See wind; Coriolis effect. It is not a serious point however. The issue for me is trying to generate food in desert like conditions. You can do it - you can also push water up hill but it all takes an inordinate amount of cheap energy to make it work. The goal is to make the system sustainable which means, most likely, that you need to work with nature rather than against it. Art ----- Original Message ----- From: bob allen To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments actually Art, the winds do blow from east to west across the Atlantic at least at the latitude which carries dust from the Sahara to the Caribbean and northeast South America. Think Atlantic hurricanes which are spawned off the coast of Africa and move in a westerly direction to east coast of the US and caribbean islands. An interesting discussion of dust movement from east to west is in "The Secret Life of dust" by Hanna Holmes. Art Krenzel wrote: > Derek, > > Unless the prevailing wind has reversed its course on your world, the wind blows FROM the Amazon TO the Sahara desert (unless it goes around the world). There would be alot of other deserving people the Sahara winds would cross before it got the Amazon that way around. > > I'm not saying the desert concept is worthless - I am saying that the concept is not practical or sustainable without an inordinate dependence upon alot of cheap energy. > > Art > ----- Original Message ----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 2:34 AM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable Technology or Conservation Investments > > > Hi, > > I vaguely recall reading that a lot of the nutrients for the Amazon are carried by wind from the Sahara. Although a lot of the desert is 'just' sand, most of it has plenty of soil. If given a bit of water it blooms. It is amazing what all pops up once there is a bit of rain. > > I think we basically agree on the best way to grow food, etc. But, I don't think Brian's suggestion of investing in desert land and adapting it to future energy production is without merit either. Certainly I don't think it should be discounted out of hand as a worthless idea. > > Regards, > > Derek > > > > Derek, > > > > All the energy fuss doesn't cut ice. If it isn't sustainable, what is it? An > > experiment? > > > > How much of your wheat is grown using water produced by reverse osmosis? Would > > this be possible if the Saudi Arabian economy were not sustained by the sales of > > oil to the rest of the world? Try the energy experience in the Sudan economy > > perhaps or Yeman and see how far it goes. > > > > The biggest places that are exporting food today have natural water and soil. > > These has been the traditional basis for food production since the beginning of > > time. Not energy alone. Energy helps but if you have nothing to eat, all the > > energy in the world doesn't do you a bit of good. > > > > You don't farm in a desert because there is insufficient water or organic matter > > in the sand to make the system work. Hydroponics does not compare with soil > > produced food in quality or cost. As an experiment, it might work fine but to > > produce food for 4 billion people it quickly fails. > > > > The problem with viewing the problem from only an energy standpoint is the > > saying, "to a man with a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail". > > Sustainability should be the watchword. > > > > Art > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:23 AM > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: OT: Worldwide Publicly Traded Sustainable > > Technology or Conservation Investments > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Unlimited energy leads to all other needs. The most essential raw product is > > energy. Once one has energy they can recycle water, make water, grow food in all > > sorts of ways, etc. I've lived in the desert for ten years. It was an eye opener > > to realize how dependent life in the desert is on energy, and how everything > > else pales. I live in Saudi...number one in the world at making potable water > > from the sea. They grow enough wheat to meet their own needs, and export the > > excess. Life is dependent on energy like nowhere else. > > > > Please don't misunderstand me. I am not advocating this. I don't consider much > > this to be sustainable. But, I don't think it is wise to minimize the importance > > of energy as the fundamental building block under everything else. > > > > In the desert, it would be easily possible to harvest 50% of the incident > > light for electricity production and to farm with the remaining light. Brian is > > right on. The future energy production for the world could well come from > > worthless deserts, with a top layer of Photovoltaics and vast farms under the > > light collectors. The energy could possibly be exported by either microwaves or > > hydrogen pipelines. > > > > Regards, > > > > Derek > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > Before you invest in "worthless" desert islands, you better make sure you > > can > > > raise food on that island. Energy alone, whether hydrogen or electricity, > > makes > > > a poor meal even for an energy guru. > > > > > > Art Krenzel, P.E. > > > PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES > > > 10505 NE 285TH Street > > > Battle Ground, WA 98604 > > > 360-666-1883 voice > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! 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