Hello Ryan, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: [biofuel] RE: [biofuels] Re: US poll about Iraq war
> Hey Todd et al, let's not make this personal, did you perhaps not see my > ":)?". I was merely saying that we have all benefited in the long run from > the genocide that happened in North America in the past. How ? Are they sequential or consequential? Do you imply that techonological progress is unattainable without the genocide ? Another case of us vs. them or more preceisely US vs.them ? > One cannot judge history by modern standards, that's History 101! America is single-handedly > the most innovative populace the world has ever known period. The USA is primarily a land of immigrants, and innovativeness and vigour are characteristic of all immigrant populations who have to struggle all the harder in an alien clime. Take away the immigrants and what is left of the USA ? Besides, your claim to single handed exclusivity for all these advances bespeaks a monumental ignorance of how technology is advanced in small incremental steps. Remember Newton and the shoulders of giants ? > Look around you, the technology our democracy and free markets have produced and > continue to produce have saved countless more lives, and provided for even > more than were lost in the settling of this land. We are all benefiting > from this, our life expectancy is much higher than even two generations ago, > and our quality of life is unimaginable to those in the past. Do you like > your medicine? Your efficient, convenient way of life? Your entertainment, > refrigerator, how about your computer, it's software and the Internet? Have > you ever used a phone, or turned on a light, or read a newspaper, or > wondered about the mysteries of Space? This country has developed more > technology than any other past or present, that we are all benefiting from. What has all this got to do with the original genocide? All countries in the world continue to contribute to the US in terms of quality manpower, the essential in any innovative enterprise. To get a peep into how developing countries underwrite these costs even today, visit http://www.deeshaa.org/who_paid.html > Furthermore, who does the world look to for justice in the world? Ask the Afghans, the Iraqis and the Palestinians not to mention the Vietnamese, and the disenfranchised blacks and Hispanics in your own backyard. In fact, the USA has put itself beyond the pale of the International Court of Justice, as has India. > Were it not the Americans who emerged victorious in WWI and WWII saving the world > from tyranny and genocide? The USA joined the WWII rather late, only after the attack on Pearl Harbour. This is almost as bad as the Soviet claim that they won the WW II for the rest of the world, without mentioning their sinister role pre 1940. > Did anyone else contribute more to the plight of the South Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Kuwaitis and Saudis, or to the people > of Yugoslavia? Duh ? More or less ? And the Vietnamese ? !!! Do you know what is the contribution from other countries to maintaining peace in the hot spots of the world under UN supervision? USA is way way down in that list. >Who stopped the communists from taking over the world? > Has anyone else offered to bail out countless corrupt government after corrupt > government, saving people from poverty, without even asking to be re-paid? Why did the USA do that ? Did it have something to do with perceived saving their chestnut from the fire. Do you remember Marcos, Yahya Khan, The Shah of Iran ? Do you know of a democractically elected person by the name of Allende ? And what about the compensation these autocratic friends of the USA in the Middle East shelled out for the earlier Gulf war? No altruism here, hmm ? > Do I condone genocide? Of course not. But we, in this day and age, have > all benefited from it. That is all I am saying. How ? > As for my comments on the need to reduce incentive for stability in the > Middle East, I apologize for painting anyone on this list (who did not want > to be painted) as working toward reducing dependency on foreign oil, > specifically oil from the Middle East. What I meant to say, is that I am > working to reduce our dependency on foreign oil so that we as a nation have > less of a reason (incentive) to meddle in the affairs of the Middle East. A laudable objective, no doubt. In fact this is the only place I find you sensible and sensitive. > As far as I can tell (and I have never been there) the region is fraught > with religious strife, brutality, ignorance, and hatred. In short, most of > the countries there seem almost laughably behind the times given their > resources, corrupt, and no place to be if you were born with fallopian tubes > and a uterus. Islamic law fosters fear, slows progress, and is easily > abused by those in power. We are fighting the evil, backward, minority in > Iraq for many reasons, oil, hope, and liberation among them. We have > attempted to provide them with hope for a brighter future, teach them about > democracy and free trade, so that we may watch them prosper, and no one can > seem to get past centuries old grudges and hatred toward one another and us. Agreed that the Middle East today does not reflect its glorious past and can do with much improvement in human and gender rights. But does not USA or India or any other country for that matter have its share of such people ? The major reason democracy has not sprouted in these parts is the patronage and close ties that the ruling elites have enjoyed with the USA, which has been as keen to appear to maintain democracy at home as in propping up venal, corrupt and pliant dictatorships in the rest of the world, all in the national interest of course. Why else do you think the people of the Third World even today are left leaning ? > It got so bad, one man ordered the hijacking and crashing of our own planes > (once again our inventions) into our own skyscrapers (dido) because we had > established a base in "The Holy Land" to promote stability in the region, > and he couldn't handle we "Infidels" on his turf. Where were the Muslims > after 9/11? I sure didn't hear cries of outrage and condemnation from their > community, did you? In fact the silence, at least state-side, was > deafening. We are "infidels," and every good Muslim must rid the world of > infidels according to the Koran, am I right? So I say, "Fine, you want me > dead? I'll fight you back by not buying your oil and watching you figure > out the world doesn't work that way anymore and changing. > I buy and promote biodiesel to give the people of the Middle East incentive > to find another line of work and move forward. > As for the non-American majority on this list, stop and consider, for a moment where you would be > without us. I find this begging my first question - Where would the USA be without the rest of the non American (sic) world ? I come from an ancient land, where a more encompassing, inclusive and holistic way of life has been practiced for millenia, long before the advent of any civilisation in Europe, let alone the New World. We had and continue to have a living democratic tradition in our village Panchayats, where disputes were debated and settled in a fair and just manner. We are the world's largest democracy and continue to cherish humanistic values. Our elections ae by and large fair. Withall, there are a whole raft of warts all over our bodies politic and social and no amount of nay saying will make them go away. As in much of life all over this global village, there is much to rejoice about and much to grieve over. I find you very selective about facts and amnesic about large tracts of recorded history. The patriot in you is possibly struggling to prove that his country is the best for the sole reason that he was born in it. I find the tenor of you mail at a very low ebb, the approach very narrow and exclusivistic and the attitude juvenile. You are bad publicity for millions of your decent and thoughtful countrymen. Please try to assimilate facts that militate against your pet beliefs, if only to improve your worldview and achieve the balance that is so sadly lacking in your perspective. Weigh your words before you speak. Token deference to the other list members aided by sly winks notwithstanding your mail is insulting not only to the self respect of the majority but to the intelligence of a moderately informed citizen of the world. Regards. balaji > Ryan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
