Brian,
I think that you brought it on topic, since the pharmaceutical industry and the petroleum industry have a lot in common. LOL A healthy life style, is beneficial, not only for the individual in question, but also for the society. You are right, the Americans are bit more hypochondriac than others. It is also a nation that have a very difficult relationship with life and death. I come from a family of, physicians and it is amazing how many of them who really wanted to be an engineer, it seems to be many doctors dream. -:) I had a large advantage and benefit from my background, which helped me a lot with connecting engineering knowledge with learning more than average of how the body works. I think that I am one of the few acoustical engineers, who had the opportunity to participate in dissections of the ear. In energy transmission and comfort in buildings, I seem to connect much more to how the body work, than the average HVAC engineer, which is not a major task anyway. Look at our site, http://energysavingnow.com/ The medical achievements during the last century are fantastic, if you only give it a short thought. At the same time, it is very much to do in the field of prevention, one of my fathers responsibilities, as being in charge of the health care in a major Swedish city. It is very interesting and I said most of what I wanted to say on this issues, in a very interesting list discussion around a year ago. I am not good in finding these things, but I know that Keith have both a genuine interest and knowledge in this too. Hakan At 15:52 16/05/2004, you wrote: >Luc and Hakan, > >Thank you for bringing up this discussion. As a physician, my >experience has shown that both points are valid. I think that it is >most obvious in psychiatry, but can be expanded to any field of >medicine. We pollute our systems with poisons, then expect >medicines to fix the problems we have created. There are those that >develop disease for no identifiable reason, and for those the >available medicines work best. As a society, though, Americans >continue to look for the magic pill that will allow us to live in >whatever way we please without consequences. We therefore destroy >our bodies as Luc points out, and rely on medicine to do things for >us that we should be able to do for ourselves. And, yes, the drug >companies do what they do for profit. Many of their marketing >practices are questionable at best and criminal at worst. They are >huge, multinational corporations, and behave just like any other >huge, multinational corporation. Once in a while they do something >that benefits people, but they do so in the name of profit and >market their actions in the name of benefits to humanity. And, in >this marketing, they ignore or purposely cover up the fact that >these chemicals have negative consequences in addition to their >positive effects. Health is big business, and it is unfortunate >that big business is exactly who is in charge. > >Brian > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Luc, > > > > Strong words and BS. It is a proven effect of antibiotics, that >the average > > life > > of humans nearly doubled. I am myself a survivor, only thanks to >the new > > ulcer medicines. Ulcer have in the past been a substantial killer, >even if it > > is not so much talked about it. > > > > You can promote and blame what ever you want. It is much that can >be > > improved on the health side. You are not wrong to do so. It is >however not a > > contradiction to medicines that more than doubled the average >human life > > span (in combination with the potato). > > > > Hakan > > > > > > At 04:03 16/05/2004, you wrote: > > >Oh crap ! Here I go again. Health is a matter of what one does to > > >one's body in the same way that a computer data base can only > > >provide what is put in it. > > >That said, we must go to the origins of anything in order to see > > >what the subsequent elements have brought. Modern medicine (my > > >father was a doctor, although I support alternative medicine)is > > >based upon pharmacology, and this pharmacology is based upon > > >altering the chemical balance found within the body's functions in > > >order to aim at a perceived or desired effect, not always very > > >succsessfully, and often deals not with the source root of the > > >problem but rat5her with the symptoms never ever getting to the > > >root. But WHERE did the expansion of modern pharmaceuticals come > > >from ? For that we find ourselves at about the same junction as >when > > >Standard Oil was ordered to disband by the courts in an anti-trust > > >hearing labeled at our "friend" Rockefeller. Not only did this > > >Rockefeller disband his empire of Standard Oil into Exxon, Texaco, > > >Mobil, Unocal ect... while remaining a controling interest at the > > >head of each but he also instituted the pharmaceutical industry >into > > >what it has become today. Both of these conglomerate interests do > > >NOT have your health and well-being at heart. The goal is profit, > > >not helping anybody but themselves. > > >Modern medicine has made more people sick than it has ever "cured" > > >of anything, and that is the point. Not to kill you, but to see to > > >it that you are profitable. Hense junk/processed foods that polute > > >you, GMO crops that monopolise the world's food source and alter >the > > >basic gene structure while destroying indigenous species, >chemicals > > >that UNbalance your body's natural ability to fight for itself. >All > > >this is very "profitable" to those who control them, and the roads > > >all lead back to "Rome" so-to-speak. > > >For more on the Rockefeller dynasty and the break up of Standard >Oil > > >ect... check out "The Rockefeller File" found here: > > > ><<http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gary_allen_rocker/index.html#metatop>http: > //www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gary_allen_rocker/index.html#metatop>h >ttp://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/gary_allen_rocker/index.html#metatop > > >Good health is directly related to good,clean,natural food and > > >natural means, this strengthens the immune system and thereby also > > >strengthens the lymphatic system which is charged with the > > >elimination of toxins and dead cells. When the immune and >lymphatic > > >systems are strong pathogens cannot enter and cause damage because > > >they are met at teh door by an army of killer cells whose job it >is > > >to defend you against them. When the immune and lymphatic systems > > >have been weakened by polluted and un-natural foods then when the > > >pathogesn appear they are free to enter the body and find a place >to > > >nest, and once the pthogen has done that it is very opportunistic > > >and will multiply until stopped or until it kills you, whichever > > >comes first. > > >By filling your body with polluted and substandard food you are > > >being "profitable" to those who control them. When you unbalance > > >your body's functions with chemical "enhancers" you open the door > > >for pathogens to enter and find a home because you have weakened > > >your immune functions. Once a cancerous cell has been allowed to > > >settle in it multiplies and it is often then too late to stop it >and > > >no amount of chemotherapy or radiation treatment has been > > >conclusively proven to alter the end result, being your death. > > >Antibiotics are the greatest killers of the immune and lymphatic > > >functions as they are indiscriminate in what they attack and > > >destroy. They destroy not only the harmful bacteria, but also the > > >bacteria that has a beneficial action on your body and thereby > > >weakens it and the cycle regenerates. I have a study on the >effects > > >of antibiotic poisoning on my site completely access free; > > > ><<http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/probiotics.html#bios>http://www.li > feresearchuniversal.com/probiotics.html#bios>http://ww >w.liferesearchuniversal.com/probiotics.html#bios > > >So, to say > > >that modern medicine has been beneficial to the social structure >of > > >any culture is erroneous and false. True medicine is a benefit >and a > > >boon as it treats the whole body and not only "profitable" >symptoms. > > > > > >My two and a half cents worth. > > > > > >Luc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Good grief Ryan! > > > > > > > > "Merely" saying? LOL! > > > > > > > > >Hey Todd et al, let's not make this personal, did you perhaps >not > > >see my > > > > >":)?". I was merely saying that we have all benefited in the > > >long run from > > > > >the genocide that happened in North America in the past. One > > >cannot judge > > > > >history by modern standards, that's History 101! > > > > > > > > But that's what you're doing. > > > > > > > > >America is single-handedly > > > > >the most innovative populace the world has ever known period. > > > > > > > > Is that how you measure progress? Read on, and it is how you > > >measure > > > > progress - your idea of progress has a capital P and is >preceded > > >by a > > > > silent T, for "Technological". It went out the door in the > > >sixties, > > > > Ryan. Forty years ago the Modernist Project was deemed to have > > > > failed, now it's known as the Myth of Modernism. What >followed, or > > > > tried to, was Post-Modernism, still only defined by what >preceded > > >it > > > > because true progress, human progress, the real story of >history, > > >got > > > > sidetracked (once again) by the current Neo-Liberal era, if >that's > > > > what it is, which "merely" compounds the failures of Modernism, > > > > especially its more lethal aspects. If you don't know all this > > >then > > > > you're living in a sort of suburban dream out of a 1955 >Reader's > > > > Digest. > > > > > > > > >Look around > > > > >you, the technology our democracy and free markets have >produced > > >and > > > > >continue to produce have saved countless more lives, and >provided > > >for even > > > > >more than were lost in the settling of this land. We are all > > >benefiting > > > > >from this, our life expectancy is much higher than even two > > >generations ago, > > > > >and our quality of life is unimaginable to those in the >past. Do > > >you like > > > > >your medicine? > > > > > > > > That gave me a real belly-laugh! Reminded of another belly- >laugh I > > > > had when a doctor got furious with me and yelled "Of course >we're > > > > more healhy now! We have six times as many hospital beds!" I > > >really > > > > hope you didn't have to think about that one. > > > > > > > > "... our life expectancy is much higher than even two >generations > > > > ago..." and there lies the flaw. Go back to *before* > > > > industrialisation and you find an altogether different picture. > > >The > > > > picture you're seeing is a prime case of your History 101, >judging > > > > history by modern standards. Please see: > > > > > > > ><<http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/16019/>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/16019/>http://infoarchive.net/ >sgroup/BIOFUEL/16019/ > > > > > > > > Note the "please" - I hope you do read it this time, you didn't > > >last > > > > time, nor the time before that. > > > > > > > > Anyway, do you think being healthy is a matter of taking >medicine? > > > > Are you quite sure modern medicines are better? We certainly >have > > > > better diseases these days, I'll give you that, both us and the > > > > biosphere we're supposed to be a part of, something of a severe > > >but > > > > under-reported casualty of your brand of "Progress". > > > > > > > > >Your efficient, convenient way of life? Your entertainment, > > > > >refrigerator, how about your computer, it's software and the > > >Internet? Have > > > > >you ever used a phone, or turned on a light, or read a >newspaper, > > >or > > > > >wondered about the mysteries of Space? This country has > > >developed more > > > > >technology than any other past or present, that we are all > > >benefiting from. > > > > > > > > > >Furthermore, who does the world look to for justice in the > > >world? Were it > > > > >not the Americans who emerged victorious in WWI and WWII >saving > > >the world > > > > >from tyranny and genocide? Did anyone else contribute more to > > >the plight of > > > > >the South Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Kuwaitis and Saudis, >or to > > >the people > > > > >of Yugoslavia? Who stopped the communists from taking over >the > > >world? Has > > > > >anyone else offered to bail out countless corrupt government > > >after corrupt > > > > >government, saving people from poverty, without even asking >to be > > >re-paid? > > > > >Do I condone genocide? Of course not. But we, in this day >and > > >age, have > > > > >all benefited from it. That is all I am saying. > > > > > > > > You certainly condone jingoism. > > > > > > > > Look at what Al Sharpton said about trade - never mind which >party > > >he > > > > represents or whatever, just look at it: > > > > > > > > >Rev. Sharpton also opposes NAFTA and the World Trade > > >Organization. > > > > >"I disagreed with NAFTA when Clinton was in, and I think that >we > > > > >have come to see that that disagreement was correct," said > > >Sharpton, > > > > >following up on Kucinich's broadside. "I think that we cannot > > >have > > > > >trade policy that overlooks labor, overlooks workers' rights, > > > > >overlooks environmental concerns. We can't act like just >because > > > > >something is trade, that also that makes it right. African- > > >Americans > > > > >are here on a bad trade policy." > > > > > > > > > >Now that's breaking it down in civilized language. The slave > > >trade > > > > >was fantastically lucrative, a centuries-long commerce that > > >shaped > > > > >every society in the Americas south of Canada and allowed >Europe > > >to > > > > >assume its unnatural position of dominance in the world. "I'm > > >here > > > > >on a bad trade policy," said Rev. Al. "So just because it's > > >trade, > > > > >doesn't mean that it is good and it is something that we >should > > > > >support." > > > > > > > > By your reasoning, shouldn't he rather by counting the benefits > > >the > > > > slave trade brought him as a privileged American instead of the > > > > probably impoverished "backward" African he'd have been but for > > > > slavery? > > > > > > > > You should read the rest of that article, it sort of follows on > > >from > > > > what I was saying above about the Reader's Digest 1955: > > > > > > > ><<http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28999/>http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/28999/>http://infoarchive.net/ >sgroup/BIOFUEL/28999/ > > > > > > > > >As for my comments on the need to reduce incentive for >stability > > >in the > > > > >Middle East, I apologize for painting anyone on this list (who > > >did not want > > > > >to be painted) as working toward reducing dependency on >foreign > > >oil, > > > > >specifically oil from the Middle East. What I meant to say, >is > > >that I am > > > > >working to reduce our dependency on foreign oil so that we as >a > > >nation have > > > > >less of a reason (incentive) to meddle in the affairs of the > > >Middle East. > > > > >As far as I can tell (and I have never been there) the region >is > > >fraught > > > > >with religious strife, brutality, ignorance, and hatred. > > > > > > > > That's what they say about the US (and they're not the only >ones). > > > > Their case gathers much strength from the fact that so much of >the > > > > religious strife, brutality, ignorance, and hatred in their >region > > > > stems directly from US interference. > > > > > > > > >In short, most of > > > > >the countries there seem almost laughably behind the times >given > > >their > > > > >resources, corrupt, and no place to be if you were born with > > >fallopian tubes > > > > >and a uterus. Islamic law fosters fear, slows progress, and >is > > >easily > > > > >abused by those in power. We are fighting the evil, backward, > > >minority in > > > > >Iraq for many reasons, oil, hope, and liberation among them. > > > > > > > > It's because you (pl.) think that, in the face of massive and > > > > accumulating daily evidence to the contrary, that you're not >only > > > > making every mistake in the book plus a bunch of new ones, > > >virtually > > > > all of which you were warned about before you went in there, >but > > > > they're the very same mistakes you made 40 years ago in >Vietnam. > > >Some > > > > people just never learn. Pity so many other people have to bear > > >the > > > > consequences of that. Saving the world from Communism, eh? What > > > > happened to all the dominoes that were supposed to fall over >when > > > > Vietnam won? Oops, no dominoes. Ever think about that? > > > > > > > > >We have > > > > >attempted to provide them with hope for a brighter future, >teach > > >them about > > > > >democracy and free trade, so that we may watch them prosper, >and > > >no one can > > > > >seem to get past centuries old grudges and hatred toward one > > >another and us. > > > > >It got so bad, one man ordered the hijacking and crashing of >our > > >own planes > > > > >(once again our inventions) into our own skyscrapers (dido) > > >because we had > > > > >established a base in "The Holy Land" to promote stability in >the > > >region, > > > > >and he couldn't handle we "Infidels" on his turf. Where were >the > > >Muslims > > > > >after 9/11? I sure didn't hear cries of outrage and >condemnation > > >from their > > > > >community, did you? In fact the silence, at least state- >side, was > > > > >deafening. We are "infidels," and every good Muslim must rid >the > > >world of > > > > >infidels according to the Koran, am I right? So I say, "Fine, > > >you want me > > > > >dead? I'll fight you back by not buying your oil and watching > > >you figure > > > > >out the world doesn't work that way anymore and changing. > > > > > > > > Hopeless, it's hopeless. (Gnashing of teeth and rending of > > >raiment.) > > > > > > > > >I buy and promote biodiesel to give the people of the Middle >East > > >incentive > > > > >to find another line of work and move forward. As for the >non- > > >American > > > > >majority on this list, stop and consider, for a moment where >you > > >would be > > > > >without us. > > > > > > > > In a vast number of cases, happier, better off, better fed, >still > > > > alive. William Blum is an American historian who likes facts: > > > > > > > > > > > ><<http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm>http://members.aol.com/superogue/homepage.htm>http://members.aol.com >/superogue/homepage.htm > > > > Rogue State: A Guide to the World's Only Superpower, by William > > >Blum > > > > > > > > > > > ><<http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm>http://members.aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm>http://members. >aol.com/bblum6/American_holocaust.htm > > > > Killing Hope: U.S. Military and CIA Interventions Since World >War > > >II, > > > > by William Blum > > > > > > > > Everything he says there is well corroborated, but a great many > > > > Americans are simply unable to accept it, it's a reality that's > > >just > > > > too contrary to their cherished notions. So they go on >cherishing > > >the > > > > notions. And people elsewhere go on dying on what their tax > > >dollars > > > > so blindly support while they froth on about freedom and >democracy > > > > and all the same stuff you froth on about. > > > > > > > > I have to tell you something about discussion. If you want to > > >discuss > > > > something with people you have to listen to what they say, as >they > > > > listen to what you say, and then everything moves forward. If >you > > > > just ignore them you lose stature and soon nobody will take any > > > > notice of you - just a ranter, sitting in a hole with his mind > > >shut > > > > yelling at people. > > > > > > > > This post from you strongly indicates that you took little or >no > > > > notice of the several responses you got. You did the same with > > >your > > > > post onJohn Stossel's book. You thanked me for debunking him, >but > > >you > > > > didn't read the debunking, or you surely couldn't have >said "Read > > >it > > > > anyway, you'll enjoy it." > > > > > > > > Did you read these refs in my previous response to you in this > > >thread? > > > > > > > > >>Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the >world > > >awards > > > > >>progress...they'll figure it out. > > > > > > > > > >They did, you didn't. Maybe if the American public had done >the > > > > >right thing the US would have had something vaguely >resembling a > > > > >foreign policy over the last 50 years or so instead of sowing >a > > > > >trail of dragon's teeth in the Middle East and elsewhere in >order > > >to > > > > >prop up Big Oil no matter how, a trail leading straight to >9/11 > > >and > > > > >beyond. > > > > > > > > > > ><<http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/32425/>http://infoarchive.net/sgr > oup/BIOFUEL/32425/>http://infoarchive.net >/sg > > > roup/BIOFUEL/32425/ > > > > > > > > > ><http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/27058/>http://infoarchive.ne > t/sgroup/BIOFUEL/27058/ > > > > > > > > If you had then how can you still say this? > > > > > > > > >It got so bad, one man ordered the hijacking and crashing of >our > > >own planes > > > > >(once again our inventions) into our own skyscrapers (dido) > > >because we had > > > > >established a base in "The Holy Land" to promote stability in >the > > >region, > > > > > > > > It's utter BS. Will you read the ref Todd gave you? And >respond to > > > > it? Or do you prefer your cherished notions? > > > > > > > > This was a spiked message from a spiked member, in this thread: > > > > > > > > >HIKkEITH AND THE REST OF THE VOMIT lEFT > > > > > > > > > >TODAY, MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WITNESSED THE THE TORTURE MURDER >OF > > >ANOTHER > > > > >INNOCENT AMERICAN AT THE HANDS OF THESE LOWLIFE BARBARIANS >BENT > > >ON > > > > >DESTROYING THE US.IN THE MEANTIME, ALL YOU GUYS CAN DO IS RUN > > >DOWN YOUR > > > > >COUNTRY WITH EVERY BREATH YOU TAKE .NOVEMBER WILL COME AND YOU > > >WILL BE > > > > >CRYING AGAIN. BUT I, FOR ONE, CANNOT STOMACH THOSE,. LIKE YOU >AND > > >THE REST > > > > >OF THE VOMIT LEFT, THAT LIVE UNDER THE BENEFITS OF THE FREEST, > > >FAIREST AND > > > > >MOST COMPASSIONATE COUNTRY THAT HAS EVER EXISTED BAD MOUTHING >IT > > >AND WORST > > > > >BAD MOUTHING IT IN TIMES OF WA.R A WAR BROUGHT UPON IS BY THE > > >SICK AGRESSION > > > > >OF FIENDS BENT ON TO TAKING THE WORLD, BACK TO 7TH CENTURY > > > > > > > > > >SO TAKE YOU LIST AND SHOVE IT > > > > > > > > His tone and style and yours could hardly be more different, >but > > >what > > > > about the content, Ryan? Not much to choose, eh? How do you >feel > > > > about that? > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Ryan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: appalenergy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 8:50 AM > > > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > > Subject: [biofuel] Re: US poll about Iraq war > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Crikey Ryan! > > > > > > > > > > Did you read what you wrote? Do you even understand what it >is > > >that > > > > > you communicated? > > > > > > > > > > How distored a perspective can you have when you say > > > > > > > > > > > that much more good has come from our use > > > > > > of the land for the good of the world, than from the >natives > > >who > > > > > inhabited > > > > > > it previously. > > > > > > > > > > And to justify such a statement of arrogance by trying to >lay > > >guilt > > > > > on the doorsteps of those who came after such slaughter? How > > > > > disconnected and disjointed can a human being's thought > > >processes be? > > > > > > > > > > Benefitted? Haven't you figured out that the mindless > > >and "depraved > > > > > philosophy" of Manifest Destiny is something that global > > >society is > > > > > suffering the consequences from to this very day? Not to >mention > > > > > that it's acceptance and implementation in one era smooths >the > > >path > > > > > for its implementation in every generation thereafter. > > > > > > > > > > Get real for a moment. It's somehow okay to slaughter and > > > > > displace "the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic ... natives" >who > > > > > cannot withstand overwhelming numbers, unimaginable >weaponry and > > > > > devastating disease? > > > > > > > > > > Who the hell are you or anyone else to pass such judgement? > > > > > > > > > > Wake up for Christ's sake!!! And everyone elses. Standing >up for > > > > > a "depraved philosophy that states we are morally compelled >by > > >God > > > > > Almighty to kill weaker people and steal their land" is >every > > >bit as > > > > > immoral and depraved as those who swing the sword, >obliterate > > >food > > > > > supplies or intentionally seed blankets with smallpox - or >any > > > > > similar actions. > > > > > > > > > > And then you move on and take issue with applications of >similar > > > > > policies of arrogance in the present day? Something sure >isn't > > >wound > > > > > and tensioned properly in your upstairs orbit if you can on >the > > >one > > > > > hand see the insanity of Bush's implementation of Jacksonian > > >policy > > > > > but still endorse or justify such aberrations in historical > > >context. > > > > > > > > > > Somehow you need to get a mental, emotional and even >spiritual > > >grip > > > > > and start understanding that all those dead, maimed and > > >displaced > > > > > persons from previous generations that you so easily dismiss > > >were as > > > > > human as you are at this very moment - and judging by your > > >words, > > > > > perhaps more so in many respects. > > > > > > > > > > One can only wonder how you would perceive history if you >were a > > > > > mother or child or infant or weathered elder on the >receiving > > >end of > > > > > a saber or bullet sent from "god." > > > > > > > > > > What are now "ghosts" were once brothers and sisters. And > > >neither > > > > > you nor anyone else has ever possessed the right to wave >your > > >hand > > > > > and state that their murder is or was justified. > > > > > > > > > > As for your dismally blind and sweepingly general >perspective > > >on how > > > > > well off the indigenous peoples of the North American >continent > > >are > > > > > today or what the traits of a broadened education are? > > > > > > > > > > Whatever it is that you're smoking you need to put it down >and > > >take > > > > > a long walk back into the world of reality. > > > > > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >wrote: > > > > > > All I can add in our defense, is that much more good has >come > > >from > > > > > our use > > > > > > of the land for the good of the world, than from the >natives > > >who > > > > > inhabited > > > > > > it previously. Yes, you too have benefited from Jackson' >s > > >quest, > > > > > so find a > > > > > > better argument about the poor, savage, barbaric, nomadic > > >though > > > > > culturally > > > > > > rich natives who fell easily to manifest destiny. Their > > >children > > > > > are being > > > > > > well taken care of, and now have the benefit of >electricity, > > > > > inexpensive > > > > > > housing, internal combustion, oh, and beer. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, we sure picked a loser for a President in 2000, good > > >thing > > > > > we can kick > > > > > > him out of office in 2004. How many other countries >refresh > > >their > > > > > > leadership on such a regular basis? I agree with some who > > >think > > > > > his entire > > > > > > administration should be behind bars for the atrocities, > > > > > corruption, and > > > > > > fleecing of not only the American public, but the entire > > >world. I > > > > > am > > > > > > ashamed to be associated with our false President and his > > >cabinet > > > > > these > > > > > > days, but proud that I voted for Al Gore, and rightly >so...as > > >it > > > > > turns out. > > > > > > Is Kerry the answer? Maybe, but at least he will choose >an > > > > > entirely > > > > > > different administration and get those crocked-good-for- > > >nothin' > > > > > Ashcrofts, > > > > > > Rumsfelds, and Cheneys out of positions of power. When >push > > >comes > > > > > to shove, > > > > > > and believe me it has! The American public will do the >right > > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the mean time, we're all [here on this list] are just >doing > > > > > what we can > > > > > > to reduce the need for foreign oil, to take the incentive > > >away from > > > > > > stability in the Middle East. Personally I look forward >to > > >the > > > > > day when the > > > > > > economics of the region make it impossible to inhabit the > > >area, at > > > > > least on > > > > > > the same scale. Where will all of those people go? Well, > > >they > > > > > may just > > > > > > have to assimilate elsewhere, obey the law, get a job, >and act > > > > > respectable. > > > > > > Enough of this 2000 year code of Islamic law already, the > > >world > > > > > awards > > > > > > progress...they'll figure it out. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please note I don't hate Native Americans or Muslim > > >populations in > > > > > general, > > > > > > I believe all people are generally good, and have gone > > >through the > > > > > four > > > > > > years of feminist based philosophy that is State-sponsored > > > > > University here > > > > > > in the US. With that said- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Flame away dear friends, > > > > > > > > > > > > Ryan :) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 1:57 PM > > > > > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why not ask the Israelis Ted? > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Wait. They haven't figured out their little problem >yet > > > > > either. > > > > > > > > > > > > Many don't agree with the analogy of Iraq being another > > >Viet Nam. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rather, the comparison to the Gaza Strip or the West >Bank > > >is more > > > > > > appropriate - continual attrition, continual hate, >continual > > > > > oppression, > > > > > > continual occupation. > > > > > > > > > > > > But heck. The US has been very good at oppression, > > >occupation > > > > > and even > > > > > > genocide throughout its "illustrious" past. Just ask any > > > > > American native. > > > > > > And for that? Jackson got his picture on the $20. > > > > > > > > > > > > One very queer country that pays homage to those who >are the > > > > > architects of > > > > > > such sweeping devastation. > > > > > > > > > > > > Todd Swearingen > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Ted Dinkelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2004 2:02 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] US poll about Iraq war > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the poll states, the majority think this is a bad > > >idea. My > > > > > question > > > > > > is > > > > > > how do we get out of it? Just quiting and going home >would > > >be a > > > > > worse > > > > > > situation and staying will cost many lives on all sides. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just saw the latest gallup polls about the Iraq war >and > > >Bush > > > > > handling > > > > > > of > > > > > > > it. As we said the whole time, "it were and is a bad >idea > > >to > > > > > > unilaterally > > > > > > > occupy Iraq". Now finally a majority of the American > > >people > > > > > seems to > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > with it and that Bush is not capable to handle it. >Now we > > > > > cannot find > > > > > > any > > > > > > > majority population of any country in the world, who > > >think > > > > > that the > > > > > > Iraq > > > > > > > occupation was or is a good idea. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We also find some fine ways of which the OPEC >countries > > >show > > > > > their > > > > > > opinion > > > > > > > of what is happening. They are signing up the major > > > > > development of > > > > > > Natural > > > > > > > Gas with other countries, like Russia and China, and >when > > >US > > > > > finally > > > > > > have > > > > > > > transport capacity for NG, they will have >difficulties to > > >buy > > > > > enough. > > > > > > The > > > > > > > same is happening on new oil exploration. They also >have > > > > > difficulties in > > > > > > > delivering more oil to US. This is not a surprise, if >the > > > > > proponents of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > opinion that we at the moment experience the Hubbert >peak > > >of > > > > > oil > > > > > > > production. The other possibility is that the oil > > >producing > > > > > countries > > > > > > > prefer to sell to China, than to US. My personal >opinion > > >is > > > > > that, even > > > > > > if > > > > > > > they wanted, they cannot meet the growing demand in US > > >and the > > > > > world. US > > > > > > is > > > > > > > not only buying to meet higher demands, but is also >buying > > > > > desperately > > > > > > for > > > > > > > filling up their strategic storage reserve, that way > > >pushing > > > > > prices > > > > > > higher. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. 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