Re: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt

[Thomas Kelly]

Kirk, Bob, Terry,        I enetered this discussion admtting "I don't know." Now I still don't know and I'm confused. I always believed that Vitamin A is fat soluble  ... hence it is found in fish oil and can be stored (in the liver).     It seems that there is a class of compounds that are  referred to as Vitamin A     Vitamin A:  preformed or provitamin A caretenoids such as alpha and beta-carotene. Then there's retinol, retinal, retanoic acid.   ???????        Kirk, you mention B-Carotene specifically, so I looked it up Beta Carotene: Molecular Formula: C40H56  Insoluble in water.   "As for quack watch they are a bunch of quacks" This, I take it is in reference to the New England Journal of Medicine Bob referred to   This, I believe, is an abstract of the study referred to: In the Alpha-Tocopherol Beta-Carotene (ATBC) Cancer Prevention Study, more than 29,000 men who regularly smoked cigarettes were randomized to receive  20 mg beta-carotene alone, 50 mg alpha-tocopherol alone, supplements of both, or a placebo for 5 to 8 years. Incidence of lung cancer was 18% higher among men who took the beta-carotene supplement. Eight percent more men in this group died, as compared to those receiving other treatments or placebo Albanes D, Heinonen OP, Taylor PR, Virtamo J, Edwards BK, Rautalahti M, Hartman AM, Palmgren J, Freedman LS, Haapakoski J, Barrett MJ, Pietinen P, Malila N, Tala E, Lippo K, Salomaa ER, Tangrea JA, Teppo L, Askin FB, Taskinen E, Erozan Y, Greenwald P, Huttunen JK. Alpha-tocopherol and beta-carotene supplement and lung cancer incidence in the alpha-tocopherol, beta-carotene cancer prevention study: Effects of base-line characteristics and study compliance. J Natl Cancer Inst 1996;88:1560-70..    Similar results were seen in the Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial (CARET), a lung cancer chemoprevention study that provided subjects with supplements of 30 mg beta-carotene and 25,000 IU retinyl palmitate (a form of vitamin A) or a placebo. This study was stopped after researchers discovered that subjects receiving  beta-carotene had a 46% higher risk of dying  from lung cancer. Redlich CA, Blaner WS, Van Bennekum AM, Chung JS, Clever SL, Holm CT, Cullen MR.  Effect of supplementation with beta-carotene and vitamin A on lung nutrient levels. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 1998;7:211-14.   "Quacks"?  If you say so.   It doesn't surprise me that high doses of a nutrient that promotes cell division would not be something we would want to give to cancer patients.       I have a friend who told me: "Food is good, especially when you're hungry. It comes in different colors and flavors too."  Maybe it's the precautionary principle that has me going with good food (maybe before long I'll add an herb or two?) over supplements, and (hopefully) pharmaceuticals.                 Good Health to you all,                                   Tom        ----- Original Message ----- From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt No - the beta carotene is water soluble. The premise is the body wont make a toxic level of vitamin A from it. As for quack watch they are a bunch of quacks. Good god Bob what do you expect a bunch of allopaths to say about non allopathic medicine? It will be a cold day in hell when they give an unprejudiced report. Our metasticised cancer cure rate is no better than before -- after 30 years of "war on cancer" The only improvement the allopaths have is earlier  detection. And we are to bend our knee and kiss their ring? I think not.   As for non Harvard data base modalities the cesium chloride mouse study was interesting yet all we see is is the American Cancer Society warning about toxicity. The master poisoners - and that is what chemotherapy is - discourage cesium because the ld50 is 160 grams or thereabouts. I'm curious Bob what the ld50 for NaCl is. I think 160 grams of table salt could be quite an ordeal. So the ACS hype is just that perhaps. The university study claimed remission in 97% of the mice if I recall correctly. So where is the double blind study?   LEF hosts the federal paper. Not their work - and the study was vitamin A not beta carotene. LEF is a good resource. They have a lot of interesting papers.   Kirk bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: > Actually the carrot contains beta carotene yes of course, and it is what makes "red palm oil" red. which is used in the body to > make vitamin A. It is water soluble no kirk, not that it matters here but it is one of the fat soluble vitamins. It is stored in the liver of many animals. and Lorraine Day MD took enough to > turn herself orange. She believed it helped her overcome breast cancer. actually there is no evidence that it was cancer. from quackwatch.com Lorraine Day, M.D., would like you to believe that she has discovered the answer to cancer and that her experience as a patient qualifies her to give advice about cancer. She warns against trusting the medical profession and claims that all drugs can cause cancer. Her videotapes state (falsely) that standard cancer treatment has never cured anyone and that nobody should undergo chemotherapy and radiation for any cancer. She speaks eloquently and from the heart, but her tapes are filled with factual errors and far-fetched claims. I believe that her advice is untrustworthy and dangerous to the extent that it steers people away from effective treatment. The centerpiece of Day's story is that she cured herself of a grapefruit-sized lump that she says was a recurrence of her breast cancer. But she has refused to disclose any medical records that would confirm that the mass was cancer (rather than a cyst) > The use of 100,000 units of A a day recovered 30% of lost lung function > in a Federal study (patients had emphysema) > see lef.org for a copy of the paper. lef.org better update their files before they hurt someone. One study employing beta carotene(20 mg/day) was cut short when it was realized that: ATBC researchers reported that men who took beta-carotene had an 18 percent increased incidence of lung cancers and an 8 percent increased overall mortality. Vitamin E had no effect on lung cancer incidence or overall mortality. The men taking both supplements had outcomes similar to those taking beta-carotene alone (New England Journal of Medicine 1994;330:1029) > > Kirk > > */bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote: > > D. Mindock wrote: > > There have been a considerable number of studies on herbs. It is > a myth that > > herbs haven't > > been studied. BTW, an herb is any plant that has > > special properties. A carrot might be called an herb since it > helps the > > eyes. > > > your example is proving one of my points. you cant necessarily trust > traditional wisdom. Further confounding things is that not only is > vitamin A essential in small amounts, it is both toxic and teratogenic > at higher concentrations. There is enough Vit. A in a polar bear > liver to kill a person, and there are documented cases of fishermen > you became violently ill from consuming certain fish livers such as > halibut. > > http://www.snopes.com/food/ingredient/carrots.asp > > Claim: Eating carrots results in improved vision. > > Status: False. > > > your example is proving one of my points. you cant necessarily trust > traditional wisdom. Further confounding things is that not only is > vitamin A essential in small amounts, it is both toxic and teratogenic > at higher concentrations. There is enough Vit. A in a polar bear > liver to kill a person, and there are documented cases of fishermen > you became violently ill from consuming certain fish livers such as > halibut. > > If thing were so simple as natural is safe and good and synthetic is > bad... > > Strawberries slow > > down cancer. > > I.E., they have medicinal properties. Big Pharma will study an > > herb to pick out those chemicals that have the properties they're > looking > > for. E.g., Cat's Claw (graviola is another) is believed to have > anti-cancer > > properties. So a drug company will look for what they believe is the > > "active" ingredient and find the chemical analogue. > > I am not well versed in chemical patent law but I think you are > oversimplifying here. Generally the reason companies look for analogs > is to find better efficacy, lowered side effects, simpler structures > which lend themselves to production, or any combination thereof. > > > Merely extracting the > > active ingredient will not allow the patenting of it. But the > man-made > > analogue of it will. So they test the analogue and then submit it > to the FDA > > for its test. 200 million dollars is the figure > > I have heard that this test costs. So, the ability to get a > patent on a > > synthetic analogue is what gives Big Pharma > > the leverage to make billions on just one new drug. The markup on > a drug is > > sometimes as high as > > 50,000%, making drug manufacturing obscenely lucrative. The ones > that bomb, > > like Vioxx, are just the > > cost of doing business. With the huge markups and huge profits comes > > political power, unfortunately for us > > all. > > no argument there > > > Peace, D. Mindock > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe Street" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:27 AM > > Subject: Re: [Biofuel] amazing himalayan salt > > > > > >> Hey Bob; > >> > >> Again, follow the money. Where is the funding going to come from to > >> test the efficacy of something anyone can grow and pick themselves. > >> Drug companies are loathe to spend a dime on any testing unless > they are > >> forced to do so by the regulating bodies. They sure as hell > aren't going > >> to waste that dime on something they can't control or sell. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> bob allen wrote: > >> > >> snip > >> > >>> The > >>> problem with herbs is, as I have said before, there is little to no > >>> proof of efficacy for the vast majority of them. I not saying they > >>> don't work, I am just saying that scientific evidence for > efficacy is > >>> lacking. > >>> > >>> > >> snip > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives > (50,000 messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises > in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral > justification for selfishness JKG > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > All-new Yahoo! 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