I was thinking about this, while making a sf1.0 project... and indeed dispite of how good the new things in 1.2, it really got really complex.In some ways, to a new commer, use symfony isn't a good idea he doesn't need only to use MVC and ORM anymore, he needs to learn (and almost master) the symfony forms to the very first project.
I mean, it's insane in this point of view that sf can't make it easyer to build a login form (let's ignore the plugin)... Almost against the 'KISS' principle. I think symfony is an expert weapon, but it is almost 'no newbies allowed'... ps: I hope I made my self clear about it. On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:20, Alexandru-Emil Lupu <gang.al...@gmail.com>wrote: > Gareth, i might even say old php 3.. in php4 there were any oop layering in > progress .. > > Fabien, if i remember right (haven't work to much with Rails) symfony > folder structure is much alike with Ruby on Rails. By the way. Please close > this non sense thread. > > Alecs > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Gareth McCumskey > <gmccums...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> We recently hired a junior PHP developer, fresh out of college, getting >> his first taste of using PHP AND symfony in a production environment. We >> pretty much had to throw him in the deep end with using symfony and the >> associated documentation and give him work to do. >> >> Guess what? Because of symfony's abstracted nature and the ability for >> developers to focus on business logic, he is resolving bugs and adding new >> features all the time. The only time he stops to ask my help with anything >> is when it has to do with our OWN code implemented in symfony and NOT the >> framework itself. To me , thats evidence enough that the framework and its >> structure is not difficult to learn and get into for a new user who is >> willing to take the time and learn it. >> >> If we had built our application without symfony we would still be very far >> away from a releasable product costing the company more and more money. >> >> All of your responses show someone who is stuck in the old PHP4 procedural >> line of thinking where its create functionality line by line and you are >> apparently not willing to invest the relaistically small amount of time >> required to use symfony. >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:34 AM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> And? Where you saw any recommendation to use <th> tags outside >>> <thead> ?? >>> I never said that any developer is stupid here. But now I have changed >>> my opinion >>> under the pressure of your arguments. >>> >>> Anyway, finally I would say this: >>> >>> Most of you are calling for some alleged benefits that are hidden >>> behind terms >>> like "re-usable, re-factoring" or "developer can concentrate on >>> business logic" ... bla ... bla .. bla >>> >>> 1st >>> >>> What does it mean to do something re-usable? Do you really need to >>> spend >>> too much time on that if it will eventually be used once or just a few >>> times? >>> I heard many times: "Yes, make it re-usable...yes, yes, >>> yes..ooooh....make it >>> re-usable!" even if that is justified or not. >>> >>> 2nd >>> >>> What is the limit? How deep a developer should go with the "re- >>> factoring"? >>> Is it necessary to split templates into numerous small fragments and >>> thus make >>> them an extremely confusing and difficult to track? I heard many >>> times: "Yes, >>> re-factore it ...yes, yes, yes..ooooh....re-factore it!" even if that >>> is justified or not. >>> >>> 3rd >>> >>> Most of you said that Symfony Framework enables developers to >>> concentrate >>> on business logic? Yes, that's OK. I just wanted to warn that in these >>> efforts, >>> Symfony developers are exaggerating a bit, which resulted with the >>> intricate >>> logic of the Symfony framework that hides the flow of the application >>> to the level >>> where it is very difficult to understand and monitor the application. >>> >>> This is my last post here. >>> >>> WBR, >>> Ghost3D >>> >>> >>> On Sep 25, 2:52 am, Jeremy Thomerson <jeremythomer...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > I've avoided responding on this thread to this point because your rude >>> > foul-mouthed criticism is ridiculously ignorant and malicious. But, >>> since >>> > you once again call all developers here stupid, please be quickly >>> proven >>> > wrong by reading the "INTRODUCTION TO TABLES" by the W3C. If you don't >>> know >>> > who the W3C is, please try to do a little research. >>> > >>> > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.1 >>> > >>> > Jeremy >>> > >>> > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > > Ok Eno, >>> > >>> > > I visited that link and I did not thrilled because I found something >>> > > wrong again: >>> > >>> > > <form action="/frontend_dev.php/contact/submit" method="POST"> >>> > > <table> >>> > >>> > > <!-- Beginning of generated code by <?php echo $form ?> >>> > > --> >>> > > <tr> >>> > > <th><label for="name">Name</label></th> >>> > > <td><input type="text" name="name" id="name" /></td> >>> > > </tr> >>> > > <tr> >>> > > <th><label for="email">Email</label></th> >>> > > <td><input type="text" name="email" id="email" /></td> >>> > > </tr> >>> > > <tr> >>> > > <th><label for="message">Message</label></th> >>> > > <td><textarea rows="4" cols="30" name="message" id="message"></ >>> > > textarea></td> >>> > > </tr> >>> > > <!-- End of generated code by <?php echo $form ?> >>> > > --> >>> > >>> > > <tr> >>> > > <td colspan="2"> >>> > > <input type="submit" /> >>> > > </td> >>> > > </tr> >>> > > </table> >>> > > </form> >>> > >>> > > So, what is the problem here: >>> > >>> > > <th> tag within the HTML table should never be used >>> > > outside <thead> </thead>, because each web browser >>> > > could interpreted this in different ways! Now I understand >>> > > better why most of you loves the Symfony Form >>> > > framework - most obviously does not even basic >>> > > knowledge of the HTML. >>> > >>> > > WBR, >>> > > Ghost3D >>> > >>> > > On Sep 25, 12:11 am, Eno <symb...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > > > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, bghost wrote: >>> > > > > This is bad formatted HTML - where is <table> tag? Using <tr>, >>> <th> >>> > > > > and <td> without table - terrible ! >>> > >>> > > > As the example in the docs show, *you* must supply that: >>> > >>> > > > >>> http://www.symfony-project.org/forms/1_2/en/01-Form-Creation#chapter_... >>> > >>> > > > -- >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gareth McCumskey >> http://garethmccumskey.blogspot.com >> twitter: @garethmcc >> >> >> >> > > > -- > As programmers create bigger & better idiot proof programs, so the universe > creates bigger & better idiots! > I am on web: http://www.alecslupu.ro/ > I am on twitter: http://twitter.com/alecslupu > I am on linkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/alecslupu > Tel: (+4)0748.543.798 > > > > > -- Sidney G B Ferreira Desenvolvedor Web --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony users" group. 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