So maybe the beginner tutorials should start with simple things, like handling a hand written html form and then later introduce some extended features like sfForms, which makes your life easier. This is done with security.yml and credentials: if you need more, you can use sfGuard. The good thing about Jobeet is that it shows how fast you can develop applications with symfony. But it hides the fact, that you have to know very much about the different components, when you try to change or add something there ...
Well, i think it is really hard to satisfy everyone ... Michael On 25 Sep., 12:27, Gareth McCumskey <gmccums...@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't use the sfGuard either, just the sfBasicSecurityUser, and it works > well enough and is really not all that complicated. I don't use the admin > generator as I feel it creates elements that are far too generic for my > purposes and usually my admin and frontend systems are too integrated. > > Just like Michael said, thats the beauty of symfony. As a newcomer you can > start using what you want when you want it. Use compat_10 settings to stick > to form helpers instead of forms framework and then switch to the forms > framework when you are ready. A lot of things are this way in symfony and > you are in no way compelled to use every plugin/feature that symfony > provides. > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:16 PM, michael.pie...@googlemail.com < > > > > > > michael.pie...@googlemail.com> wrote: > > > Sid Ferreira, and everyone complaining about the new forms, you don't > > have to use them for simple things! > > Just post your raw html form to an action, handle it with > > getPostParameter() and do something with it. > > > It is NOT TRUE that you have to learn a lot of stuff just to do simple > > things. > > > I don't use sfGuard, i don't use the generator, i don't use object > > routing. I had the choice to learn and use them, or to do it my way. > > And that's what i like about symfony. > > > Michael > > > On 25 Sep., 11:39, Sid Ferreira <sid....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I was thinking about this, while making a sf1.0 project... and indeed > > > dispite of how good the new things in 1.2, it really got really > > complex.In > > > some ways, to a new commer, use symfony isn't a good idea he doesn't need > > > only to use MVC and ORM anymore, he needs to learn (and almost master) > > the > > > symfony forms to the very first project. > > > > I mean, it's insane in this point of view that sf can't make it easyer to > > > build a login form (let's ignore the plugin)... Almost against the 'KISS' > > > principle. > > > > I think symfony is an expert weapon, but it is almost 'no newbies > > > allowed'... > > > > ps: I hope I made my self clear about it. > > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 04:20, Alexandru-Emil Lupu <gang.al...@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > Gareth, i might even say old php 3.. in php4 there were any oop > > layering in > > > > progress .. > > > > > Fabien, if i remember right (haven't work to much with Rails) symfony > > > > folder structure is much alike with Ruby on Rails. By the way. Please > > close > > > > this non sense thread. > > > > > Alecs > > > > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 10:04 AM, Gareth McCumskey < > > gmccums...@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > >> We recently hired a junior PHP developer, fresh out of college, > > getting > > > >> his first taste of using PHP AND symfony in a production environment. > > We > > > >> pretty much had to throw him in the deep end with using symfony and > > the > > > >> associated documentation and give him work to do. > > > > >> Guess what? Because of symfony's abstracted nature and the ability for > > > >> developers to focus on business logic, he is resolving bugs and adding > > new > > > >> features all the time. The only time he stops to ask my help with > > anything > > > >> is when it has to do with our OWN code implemented in symfony and NOT > > the > > > >> framework itself. To me , thats evidence enough that the framework and > > its > > > >> structure is not difficult to learn and get into for a new user who is > > > >> willing to take the time and learn it. > > > > >> If we had built our application without symfony we would still be very > > far > > > >> away from a releasable product costing the company more and more > > money. > > > > >> All of your responses show someone who is stuck in the old PHP4 > > procedural > > > >> line of thinking where its create functionality line by line and you > > are > > > >> apparently not willing to invest the relaistically small amount of > > time > > > >> required to use symfony. > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 3:34 AM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>> And? Where you saw any recommendation to use <th> tags outside > > > >>> <thead> ?? > > > >>> I never said that any developer is stupid here. But now I have > > changed > > > >>> my opinion > > > >>> under the pressure of your arguments. > > > > >>> Anyway, finally I would say this: > > > > >>> Most of you are calling for some alleged benefits that are hidden > > > >>> behind terms > > > >>> like "re-usable, re-factoring" or "developer can concentrate on > > > >>> business logic" ... bla ... bla .. bla > > > > >>> 1st > > > > >>> What does it mean to do something re-usable? Do you really need to > > > >>> spend > > > >>> too much time on that if it will eventually be used once or just a > > few > > > >>> times? > > > >>> I heard many times: "Yes, make it re-usable...yes, yes, > > > >>> yes..ooooh....make it > > > >>> re-usable!" even if that is justified or not. > > > > >>> 2nd > > > > >>> What is the limit? How deep a developer should go with the "re- > > > >>> factoring"? > > > >>> Is it necessary to split templates into numerous small fragments and > > > >>> thus make > > > >>> them an extremely confusing and difficult to track? I heard many > > > >>> times: "Yes, > > > >>> re-factore it ...yes, yes, yes..ooooh....re-factore it!" even if that > > > >>> is justified or not. > > > > >>> 3rd > > > > >>> Most of you said that Symfony Framework enables developers to > > > >>> concentrate > > > >>> on business logic? Yes, that's OK. I just wanted to warn that in > > these > > > >>> efforts, > > > >>> Symfony developers are exaggerating a bit, which resulted with the > > > >>> intricate > > > >>> logic of the Symfony framework that hides the flow of the application > > > >>> to the level > > > >>> where it is very difficult to understand and monitor the application. > > > > >>> This is my last post here. > > > > >>> WBR, > > > >>> Ghost3D > > > > >>> On Sep 25, 2:52 am, Jeremy Thomerson <jeremythomer...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > I've avoided responding on this thread to this point because your > > rude > > > >>> > foul-mouthed criticism is ridiculously ignorant and malicious. > > But, > > > >>> since > > > >>> > you once again call all developers here stupid, please be quickly > > > >>> proven > > > >>> > wrong by reading the "INTRODUCTION TO TABLES" by the W3C. If you > > don't > > > >>> know > > > >>> > who the W3C is, please try to do a little research. > > > > >>> >http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#h-11.1 > > > > >>> > Jeremy > > > > >>> > On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:27 PM, bghost <bggho...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > Ok Eno, > > > > >>> > > I visited that link and I did not thrilled because I found > > something > > > >>> > > wrong again: > > > > >>> > > <form action="/frontend_dev.php/contact/submit" method="POST"> > > > >>> > > <table> > > > > >>> > > <!-- Beginning of generated code by <?php echo $form ?> > > > >>> > > --> > > > >>> > > <tr> > > > >>> > > <th><label for="name">Name</label></th> > > > >>> > > <td><input type="text" name="name" id="name" /></td> > > > >>> > > </tr> > > > >>> > > <tr> > > > >>> > > <th><label for="email">Email</label></th> > > > >>> > > <td><input type="text" name="email" id="email" /></td> > > > >>> > > </tr> > > > >>> > > <tr> > > > >>> > > <th><label for="message">Message</label></th> > > > >>> > > <td><textarea rows="4" cols="30" name="message" > > id="message"></ > > > >>> > > textarea></td> > > > >>> > > </tr> > > > >>> > > <!-- End of generated code by <?php echo $form ?> > > > >>> > > --> > > > > >>> > > <tr> > > > >>> > > <td colspan="2"> > > > >>> > > <input type="submit" /> > > > >>> > > </td> > > > >>> > > </tr> > > > >>> > > </table> > > > >>> > > </form> > > > > >>> > > So, what is the problem here: > > > > >>> > > <th> tag within the HTML table should never be used > > > >>> > > outside <thead> </thead>, because each web browser > > > >>> > > could interpreted this in different ways! Now I understand > > > >>> > > better why most of you loves the Symfony Form > > > >>> > > framework - most obviously does not even basic > > > >>> > > knowledge of the HTML. > > > > >>> > > WBR, > > > >>> > > Ghost3D > > > > >>> > > On Sep 25, 12:11 am, Eno <symb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, bghost wrote: > > > >>> > > > > This is bad formatted HTML - where is <table> tag? Using > > <tr>, > > > >>> <th> > > > >>> > > > > and <td> without table - terrible ! > > > > >>> > > > As the example in the docs show, *you* must supply that: > > >http://www.symfony-project.org/forms/1_2/en/01-Form-Creation#chapter_... > > > > >>> > > > -- > > > > >> -- > > > >> Gareth McCumskey > > > >>http://garethmccumskey.blogspot.com > > > >> twitter: @garethmcc > > > > > -- > > > > As programmers create bigger & better idiot proof programs, so the > > universe > > > > creates bigger & better idiots! > > > > I am on web: http://www.alecslupu.ro/ > > > > I am on twitter:http://twitter.com/alecslupu > > > > I am on linkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/alecslupu > > > > Tel: (+4)0748.543.798 > > > > -- > > > Sidney G B Ferreira > > > Desenvolvedor Web > > -- > Gareth McCumskeyhttp://garethmccumskey.blogspot.com > twitter: @garethmcc --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "symfony users" group. 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