Here are some thoughts from Arthur Lydiard. There was some related discussion at the Chicago Marathon a couple years ago, because of a comment by Frank Shorter that elite American distance runners wait too long to run a marathon. His comment was a little more critical than this, but I don't want to paraphrase and take a chance of misrepresenting what he meant. But, I think it was obvious that Shorter believes athletes should be running the marathon at earlier ages. Because of this, I posed the following two questions to Mr. Lydiard.
The "elite marathoner" referred to here in the second question was Paul Evans. Sorry for the shameless plug. Chicago Athlete Magazine Speedplay column March 2003 Q&A with the god of jog http://www.chicagoaa.com/features/speedplaylydiard03.html# Q: There was some discussion at the LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon two years ago regarding when an elite 5000-10,000 track competitor should run a marathon. Is there a best age when an elite distance runner should race at the marathon distance? Should they mix high-level track meetings with marathon racing? Many American distance runners focus just on the track, and then "move up" to the marathon and never or seldom ever race on the track again. A: Your aerobic development is a gradual thing. It takes years and years of marathon-type training to develop your aerobic capacity to the fullest. That is why, when in 1984 Carlos Lopes was running a marathon for the Olympics, people said that he was too old. I said that it would be to his advantage because he had developed fine aerobic base through years and years of training. Another good example is Lorraine Moller. In 1992 people thought she was too old, in fact, her shoe company dropped her contract because they thought she was too old. She won the bronze medal. Now, that does not mean you should wait till the very last moment to run a marathon. I found out years ago, and this is the fundamental concept of my training program, that when I started to train for the marathon, my track time got better. This is because of all the long running I started to do. Barry Magee is a bronze medallist in the Olympic marathon in 1960 and he ran a couple of seconds off the world record for the three-mile run in 1961. In fact, he became a better track runner after he started running marathons. You see the same thing with the English girl who set the world record for the marathon (Paula Radcliffe). She started running marathons last spring and she had the best track season of her life this past summer. It’s just a matter of balancing your training. Q: One elite marathoner said to me that he thinks there might only be about five good marathons in the body. Is there a limit an elite athlete should race at the marathon distance? A: That’s a lot of rubbish. You can run more than that. That’s the question of recovery. With so much money involved in marathon running today, some elite runners have run a marathon, pick up a check and move on to the next marathon to get paid again without adequate recovery. That shortened their career. But if you’re careful about recovery, you can keep on running marathons and keep improving. Matthew Harber wrote: > I'll ask this question acknowlegding that I haven't spent the time doing > the research: > > It seems that more of the younger African runners are focusing on the > marathon earlier in their careers and perhaps this has helped lead to an > abundance of fast debuts. The question: is it more common now for the > young superbly talented africans to focus on the marathon at a younger > age and thus develop quicker into the marathon then say ten years ago? > > The point was brought up last week that these trends and 'bursts' in > performance take decades to build so it is likely that this was > recognized several years ago and what we are witnessing now is the > product of better marathon development for young runners. > > matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of alan tobin > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 9:57 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Re: t-and-f: fwd: Marathon debutant Rutto, Boston champ > Zakharova win at Chicago > > "running a near a WR in one event implies drug use. He's going to have > to > use a completely different basis for coming to that conclusion." > > It's not just running near a WR that implies drug use. It's when > numerous > people run near a WR that bothers me. It's when a marathon VIRGIN runs > near > a WR that bothers me. If KK runs a WR it wouldn't strike me as > mysterious at > all. He's been in the game for a while. He didn't debut at 2:05. The > problem > I have is that 7 of the top 10 marathon times in HISTORY have been run > in > 2002 or 2003. From 1988 to 1998 no one went under Dinsamo's record. > Since > then there's been 25 performances by 21 runners under that record. You > will > not find such a statistic during any other past decade. When records (be > it > WR or debut WR which was just broken in Paris by Wilson Onsare before > Rutto > did his Chicago dance) are broken every year in the same event then I > question every one of those results. The state of the sport leads to > such > uncredibility. > > Alan > > >From: Richard McCann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >CC: "alan tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: Re: Re: t-and-f: fwd: Marathon debutant Rutto, Boston champ > >Zakharova win at Chicago > >Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:08:10 -0700 > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Received: from velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us ([168.150.193.10]) by > >mc11-f20.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Tue, 14 Oct > > >2003 12:14:01 -0700 > >Received: from user-dp1el8yc6y.cal.net (dcn235-28.dcn.davis.ca.us > >[168.150.235.28])by velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us (8.11.4/8.11.4/Omsoft) > with > >ESMTP id h9EJDqg05916;Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:13:52 -0700 (PDT) > >X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jGQlXSka243lVN6IUY/pnVw > >Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.2.1 > >In-Reply-To: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >.net> > >Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2003 19:14:01.0947 (UTC) > >FILETIME=[53BA62B0:01C39287] > > > >I have problems with the statistical methods used to develop most of > >these > >tables. Even the comparison method I used, which is similar to > Hoffman's > >is a bit too simplistic. However, the correct method is rather data > >intensive. I would want to use the top 100 marks over a series of > years to > >estimate the underlying variance in performances. This would be the > means > >of identifying which performances are the greatest "outlier" vs. other > >performances. The one underlying assumption is that the same > proportion of > >the population competes in each event so that the probability > distributions > >are comparable among events. > > > >If we're going to rely solely on subjective comparisons, then Tobin's > >evaluation is no more valid than mine and he has absolutely no basis > for > >leaping to a conclusion that running a near a WR in one event implies > drug > >use. He's going to have to use a completely different basis for coming > to > >that conclusion. > > > >On the other hand, I'm not arguing that my comparison is subjective per > > >se, > >but rather can be recreated by anyone else in a step by step fashion > that > >is readily transparent. If they want to change the underlying > assumptions, > >they are free to do so and to come to their own conclusions. Such > >transparency is the fundamental basis of "objective" comparisons. > >Subjective comparisons are opaque and cannot be recreated. > > > >RMc > > > >At 01:23 PM 10/14/2003 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>ALL of these "comparison tables" are fundamentally flawed, as > >>subjectivity > >>is the common denominator. Don't believe me, just compare the > projected > >>equivalents from the various tables: Purdy, Coe and Martin, > Portuguese, > >>Mercier (I'm missing a few) > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > See when your friends are online with MSN Messenger 6.0. Download it now > > FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com
