I still don't know when you think we should use crossing=traffic_signals...
Imagine you're outside the UK. Pelican signals don't exist. No animal signals, mythical or real, of any kind. There's just infrastructure: - A crossing might be marked on the ground - A crossing might have lighted signals for pedestrians to cross - A crossing might be protected by a traffic light that tells traffic to stop. That light might be at the crossing or at a street intersection. - A crossing might be protected by warning lights to raise pedestrian visibility Which part(s) of that does crossing=traffic_signals describe? > In any sane world, lights to control pedestrians also function as lights to control traffic. Then we live in an insane world! I'm not aware of any lights that control both pedestrians and traffic - they are oriented in orthogonal directions. > I can't see any sensible use case for lights that tell pedestrians they can cross that do not also control traffic. In the UK these usually (always) look identical to "ordinary" traffic lights with the operational exception of a protracted flashing amber to let pedestrians finish crossing. From a motorist's perspective they are indistinguishable (at first glance) from "ordinary" traffic lights. Similar to you, I have yet to find an intersection with a pedestrian signal that does not have some form of either warning or explicit traffic control (but it could be either one), but I wouldn't rule it out based on my experience alone. However, the existence of a traffic light doesn't imply any other infrastructure: the crossing might lack pedestrian signals, its own dedicated light near the crossing, and even any particular visual markings indicating where to cross. Despite this, the crossing=traffic_signals tag has been used to describe all of these things, somehow. On Fri, May 10, 2019 at 12:31 PM Paul Allen <pla16...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 10 May 2019 at 19:27, Nick Bolten <nbol...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This all makes sense, but the question is: what does >> crossing=traffic_lights mean given these contexts? There are at least 3 >> types of lights and I've seen all of them referred to as "traffic lights", >> even on UK government websites: >> >> - Pedestrian signals, i.e. "walk/do not walk" lights of any kind meant to >> indicate that pedestrians should cross. >> > > In any sane world, lights to control pedestrians also function as lights > to control traffic. I can't > see any sensible use case for lights that tell pedestrians they can cross > that do not also > control traffic. In the UK these usually (always) look identical to > "ordinary" traffic lights with > the operational exception of a protracted flashing amber to let > pedestrians finish crossing. > From a motorist's perspective they are indistinguishable (at first glance) > from "ordinary" > traffic lights. > > - The traffic lights for street traffic that are specifically associated >> with a pedestrian crossing, as in the pelican example - the traffic light >> pole also has all of these things: a pedestrian signal, a light for street >> traffic (stop/go/etc), and there is generally an APS to request a crossing >> signal. >> > > This, rather than your first case, is all I've ever seen in the UK. > > - The traffic lights for street traffic that are not explicitly associated >> with a particular crossing. The crossing is still protected by those >> lights, there might even be an APS, but the traffic light is located at >> highway=traffic_signals, i.e. the center of a street intersection. >> > > If they ARE intended as a crossing then, in the UK, they'll be a pelican > again, even if they're also > controlling an intersection. Not to be confused with ordinary traffic > lights at an intersection which > may not be intended for use as a crossing but tend to be used that way > (because the traffic in > one direction has been stopped, making crossing perhaps a little less > difficult). > > As far as I can tell (at least in the UK) it boils down to either traffic > lights that have nothing to do > with pedestrians or traffic lights that also control pedestrians. > > -- > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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