On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Connors, Bernie (SNB) <bernie.conn...@snb.ca> wrote: > Richard, > > Do you have a link to Import Guidelines that are specific to Canvec > data?
Sure. All imports should comply with the OSM import guidelines. My preference is that we do not import at all. We should treat outside sources the way we treat aerial imagery. This is a deliberately provocative statement. More below. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import_guidelines The automated edit guidelines apply to imports, and to any mass / bulk edit. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits/Code_of_Conduct Now, on imports. I'm very grateful that NRCan has been generous and allowed us to include Canadian government data in OSM. It's even better that folks at NRCan participate in the OSM community. This is not about them, and they are not at fault. It is my opinion that imports delay or end the growth of local OSM communities at the expense of "some data is better than perfect data". How? In the old days, a person might hear of OSM, look at the map and see that their neighbourhood is a blank spot on the map. That motivated them to map their neighbourhood, and "boom" all of a sudden that new mapper is $SuperMapper. Pick one of the old-timers on the talk@ list for a value for $SuperMapper. Today, a new mapper might look at rural Ontario, and think, "Ah, all the roads are there. No need for me to map." And we have missed the opportunity to create a new SuperMapper. So this might be true of any place, where mappers have mapped from a distance. Why pick on imports? Imports are too fast and too easy. That leads to insufficient care being applied to each node and way. When we map from aerial imagery we carefully consider each node placed on each way, because we have to do them all one by one, based on what we interpret from the imagery. That's good. With an import, we might look at the 20 km**2 and check a few spots, but it is not possible to give the same attention to each and every node that we would as we draw them by hand. So we get broken imports because we don't pay enough attention. Our tools have improved over the last seven years to reduce the gross errors that we make with imports but that is no substitute for the individual care and attention that we give to the nodes and ways we create through hard(er) work. So imports are worse than referring to an external source like tracing aerial imagery. The quality is lower. And the result can prevent or dissuade new mappers from joining OSM. In the alternative universe, where we did not import, new mappers found their neighbourhoods as blank spots and started mapping. In that alternative universe talk-ca has 10X or 100X readers. Every town in Canada has one or more local mappers. today, we might say every city in Canada has one or more mappers. In ten years we might have a mapper in every town. In that alternate universe, ten years from now, perhaps there is a mapper in every Canadian village. Is there a difference? Yes. We want a mapper on every block. Imagine, if a coffee shop around the corner changes name, how long would it take to update in OSM with a mapper on every block? "Not long" is the answer. With only one or more mappers in the nearest city, OSM will never know. We want a mapper on every block and if imports are discouraging that, we need to fix the way that we are doing imports. We could ban imports. But we still want to have access to external sources. So let's start treating external like we treat aerial imagery. When you do a foot survey you take notes and photos and draw sketches. Then you map it by referring to your notes and photos and sketches and aerial imagery. That's how we notice that the aerial imagery is three years old doesn't show the new shopping plaza or extension on the old mill. And we consider all of those sources then take the best we can from every source and put it in OSM. That's why OSM is so good where we have a rich community. OSM is better than any other single source. On the other hand, just doing an import can only be as good as that single source. So let's start using external sources as one of many sources for our mapping, not a replacement for mapping. Best regards (and catching my breath after that rant) Richard. _______________________________________________ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca