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Whenever people, after quoting a text, tell you
what a text 'means' they ought to include something akin to 'according to
me mine and ours'. People 'dance' around this reality altogether too much. The
words used to speak of reality are not the reality being spoken of.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 04, 2004 04:08
Subject: [TruthTalk] FIRST CHANCE
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DAVEH wrote: ??? How can you
perceive it as a second chance IF they never had a first chance
prior??? Let me ask it this way, Laura......do you think God
gives everybody a FIRST chance to hear the gospel and accept Jesus?
IOW......do you think there are any mortals who never had the chance to
hear the gospel and accept Jesus?
Yes, Virginia, there
are mortals who never had the chance to hear the gospel and accept Jesus.
You seem to be ignoring Romans 1:17ff. DAVEH: I
haven't ignored it at all. I just don't think it applies to those who've
never heard the gospel or had the chance to accept Jesus.
You
seem to be hung up on the fact that not all will hear the gospel, yet all
will be judged. Romans 1:17ff gives a very good explanation of how and why
that is so. "all are without excuse" DAVEH: ???
Did you misquote that, or am I missing something. Or....perhaps you are
paraphrasing what you think it says. Where does it specifically say "all
are without excuse"???
.
All means ALL DAVEH: I responded to this in a parallel
post. But to recap.....you need to read it again. ALL is not
referring to people, but rather the actions of
people.
Let me quote vs 18.......
For the
wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in
unrighteousness.
.......Do you see where it is referring to their
actions, Perry? And who are these men? Are they those who have
never received the truth? No.....the last part explains that they are
those who have the truth and are still unrighteous. That is distinctly
different than those who have never received the truth.
.
All who have heard the gospel, DAVEH: And.....that is what
these passages are suggesting......those who have heard the gospel.
all
who have not, DAVEH: What part of these verses make you
think it is applicable to those who have not heard the gospel?
all
who lived prior to Jesus, all who lived, are living, and will live live
after. Hearing the gospel is not a requirement for
judgement. DAVEH: If you are assuming such due to Rom
1:17ff.....I think you are seriously overly extrapolating the message.
Some
will be judged in light of the gospel some will not, but ALL will be judged.
ALL are without excuse.
DAVEH: Is that from Perry
1:20??? Please quote the verse that says exactly that, Perry.
Dave, you can stop reading here...the rest is a diatribe
about LDS heresies,
DAVEH: For somebody who just
misquoted.......
"all are without excuse"
..........the
Bible, Perry......I would be careful about commenting about what you think are
LDS heresies.
and
you have heard it all from me before.
According to what Paul wrote,
there is no need for a "second chance". DAVEH: I find it
very interesting that you and many other TTers want to change the direction of
the discussion by introducing the second chance comment. Why do
you do that when you know we are specifically talking about a first
chance? I will change the subject line to remind you and others who
respond to this thread that the topic is FIRST CHANCE......not, second
chances.
Everyone will be judged, gospel or not. This "second chance"
idea is a false doctrine made up by JS DAVEH: ??? When
did I or JS or LDS theology refer to second chances? The only people
I've heard mention it are other TTers who want to impose such erroneous
theories on me or LDS teachings.
because he either did not understand Romans 1, or did not accept
it as truth. ALL will be judged regardless of whether they have heard the
gospel or not. DAVEH: Why do you not accept the possibility
that all will be judged AFTER they hear the gospel? Is it so
unreasonable to think all men will have the chance to hear the gospel and
accept Jesus before the Judgment? What is the problem with believing
that the gospel was taught in the spirit world as 1Pet 3:18-19 and 4:6
suggest? What is it in Protestant theology that makes such so
implausible?
Hearing the gospel is NOT a prerequisite for
judgement. DAVEH: For what reason then does the gospel need
to be preached?
So,
LDS baptising for the dead is not biblical and a waste of
time. DAVEH: So says Perry. Apparently Paul did not
feel compelled to agree.
Once
one dies, their eternal fate is sealed. DAVEH: Those folks
Paul mentioned who were baptizing for the dead must not have thought so.
Die
once, then the judgement...not die once, get dipped vicariously by someone
you may or may not know who is still mortal, then get a second chance (or
for some a first chance) to hear the gospel, then decide, then get assigned
a "level" of afterlife...sorry...it's all hogwash (and ALL means
ALL). DAVEH: You are entitled to your opinion, Perry.
However, I respectfully disagree with it.
Also, recall that the LDS god is not the God of the Bible. And
the LDS jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. DAVEH:
Yawwwwwwwwwwn.........
I
have demonstrated this before on TT...maybe some of the newer subscribers
have not figured this out yet. So, in general, to even try to compare LDS
heresies with biblical truth is a waste of time. DAVEH:
Who's comparing, Perry? I've not mentioned it. You are the one who
seems to want to bring it up.
The
LDS on this forum don't seem to learn as a result of these
discussions...they only continue to argue from the standpoint of the LDS
heresies. DAVEH: I certainly have my LDS biases, but have
specifically asked you questions about Bible passages that you tend to
ignore. I'm interested in knowing why you read 1Pet 3:18-19 & 4:6
and don't understand them as I do. If you don't like my LDS biased
interpretation of the message of those passages, what do you think they
mean?
Dave, thanks for hanging in there...I knew you'd read it anyway!
DAVEH: Right. I've read and responded to your
questions, Perry. Yet you seem to want to avoid the passages I mentioned
above. Any particular reason?
Perry
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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