A dead baby may not be your problem, Judy, but it's many people's
rather traumatic problem. People wonder where their family members
GO...especially their children.... when they die. Death is a very
real problem most of us have to deal with at one time or another. The
death of a child is probably a pain so great that I can't even imagine
it.
jt: True Kay but what point is there in borrowing trouble. I
trust the Lord to give me the grace to deal with it if and when the time
comes. I understand that people
question these things. My own mother has been asking why my sister was
taken at 60yrs for the past 16yrs and she just had her 99th birthday.
However, if you told her the truth she wouldn't receive it. Yes
the pain is great but pulling a rabbit out of a hat to make them
feel better is no long term solution.
This was not the
context of the discussion, Judy, nor the question John asked. There
was nothing about borrowing trouble. The discussion was about being born
in sin...would that affect salvation...what about a baby who doesn't get
much of a life, who can't make the choice between God or not of God?
John said: Judy - is a dead
baby going to heaven or hell. I am sure your theology allows for
such -- just interested in how that happens.
You answered by saying a dead baby is not your
problem. Now you say there's no point in borrowing trouble. I think it's
a simple yes or no answer. Is a baby going to heaven? Is a baby going to
hell?
jt:
Taking on questions I don't know the answer to is IMO "borrowing
trouble" Kay. John is asking me to make
a
judgment or
determination that neither he or I know the answer to.
John is simply saying babies aren't accountable. Haven't you ever
had a friend who miscarried or lost their baby to being stillborn, or
died from SIDS, hit by a drunk driver, or from their immunizations?
Haven't you known a family whose child died in an accident? Catholics
would tell you the child goes to some in-between place unless the infant
has been baptized.
jt: I have miscarried myself and yes, I know how
that is but John does not know everything and it's OK to be honest and
admit it.
It has nothing to do
with what John knows or doesn't know. The discussion
is centered on salvation....who has it and who
doesn't.
jt: Those who have
it should have assurance by way of the indwelling Spirit. If you
can find the answer to John's
question in
scripture - please tell me where it is at. I know that King David was
sure the child he had with Bathsheba
was with the Lord
- even though David had sinned/repented, he was a son of the
Covenant. I am not so sure
about
the offspring of
idolators. Do you think the firstborn of the Egyptians who God
allowed to be killed went to be with Him and if your
answer is yes - what
do you base this
on?
We don't have to know everything, but we can certainly have some
tools to be an encouragement to others so we may minister to them in
empathy and love. If a young mother just had a miscarriage, or had a
baby stillborn, would you say to her.....Gee, your dead baby isn't my
problem? I have a heavenly father whose nature is love...... What
if that young mother was a non-Believer? What do you think she would
think/feel about a God who is love? Kay
jt: Of course I wouldn't say that to someone who
is grieving Kay but neither would I give them false hope. I see it as an
opportunity to encourage them to seek God's answers in His Word for
themselves. Too many people look to others for all the
answers. Helping and encouraging them is one thing.....
How does false hope
come into the picture? What if the mom is illiterate and simply
CAN'T read what the Word says? What if mom's reading/comprehension
skills are lacking and she doesn't understand the difficult words in
Scripture? Kay
jt: It's impossible
to stand on "what if?" - that's a Henny Penny philosophy. If one
determines to seek God with their whole heart He will make a way for
them. My FIL was illiterate but he could read the Bible - (KJV)
and had no problem with difficult words, apparently he got the concept
and he understood enough to be assured of his own salvation and
believe me, he walked the walk daily - enough to influence me more than
anyone I had met to that point.
judyt
jt: JOHN a dead
baby is not my problem. I have a Heavenly Father whose nature and
character is love and so I
leave all those kinds of problems with
Him cause I don't have to know everything. However, what
about the babies of the Amorites and
these other nations God was so disgusted with? I mean the ones where
Israel was told not to let even one animal
live?
In a message dated 1/10/2005 11:42:20
AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I think....correct
me if I'm wrong, John....
that John is saying that a child is "saved"
when he is born. A newborn is not cast into hell because he wasn't
"born again". A child who dies goes to heaven...until he is of the
age of accountability and makes his decision...either for God and
"heavenbound", or against God and "hellbound".
Kay
Interesting and close to what I do
believe. Judy - is a dead baby going to heaven or
hell. I am sure your theology allows for such
-- just interested in how that happens.
John