A dead baby may not be your problem, Judy, but it's many people's
rather traumatic problem. People wonder where their family members
GO...especially their children.... when they die. Death is a very
real problem most of us have to deal with at one time or another. The
death of a child is probably a pain so great that I can't even imagine
it.
jt: True Kay but what point is there in borrowing trouble. I trust
the Lord to give me the grace to deal with it if and when the time comes.
I understand that people question these things. My
own mother has been asking why my sister was taken at 60yrs for the past
16yrs and she just had her 99th birthday. However, if you told her the
truth she wouldn't receive it. Yes the pain is great but
pulling a rabbit out of a hat to make them feel better is no long term
solution.
This was not the
context of the discussion, Judy, nor the question John asked. There
was nothing about borrowing trouble. The discussion was about being born
in sin...would that affect salvation...what about a baby who doesn't get
much of a life, who can't make the choice between God or not of God? John
said: Judy - is a dead baby going to heaven or hell. I am
sure your theology allows for such -- just interested in
how that happens. You answered by saying a dead
baby is not your problem. Now you say there's no point in borrowing
trouble. I think it's a simple yes or no answer. Is a baby going to
heaven? Is a baby going to
hell?
jt:
Taking on questions I don't know the answer to is IMO "borrowing trouble"
Kay. John is asking me to make
a
judgment or
determination that neither he or I know the answer to.
John is simply saying babies aren't accountable. Haven't you ever
had a friend who miscarried or lost their baby to being stillborn, or died
from SIDS, hit by a drunk driver, or from their immunizations? Haven't you
known a family whose child died in an accident? Catholics would tell you
the child goes to some in-between place unless the infant has been
baptized.
jt: I have miscarried myself and yes, I know how
that is but John does not know everything and it's OK to be honest and
admit it.
It has nothing to do
with what John knows or doesn't know. The discussion is centered
on salvation....who has it and who
doesn't.
jt: Those who have it
should have assurance by way of the indwelling Spirit. If you can
find the answer to John's
question in scripture
- please tell me where it is at. I know that King David was sure the child
he had with Bathsheba was with the Lord
- even though David had sinned/repented, he was a son of the
Covenant. I am not so sure about
the offspring of
idolators. Do you think the firstborn of the Egyptians who God
allowed to be killed went to be with Him and if your
answer is yes - what do
you base this on?
We don't have to know everything, but we can certainly have some
tools to be an encouragement to others so we may minister to them in
empathy and love. If a young mother just had a miscarriage, or had a baby
stillborn, would you say to her.....Gee, your dead baby isn't my problem?
I have a heavenly father whose nature is love...... What if that
young mother was a non-Believer? What do you think she would think/feel
about a God who is love? Kay
jt: Of course I wouldn't say that to someone who
is grieving Kay but neither would I give them false hope. I see it as an
opportunity to encourage them to seek God's answers in His Word for
themselves. Too many people look to others for all the answers.
Helping and encouraging them is one thing.....
How does false hope
come into the picture? What if the mom is illiterate and simply CAN'T
read what the Word says? What if mom's reading/comprehension skills are
lacking and she doesn't understand the difficult words in Scripture?
Kay
jt: It's impossible
to stand on "what if?" - that's a Henny Penny philosophy. If one
determines to seek God with their whole heart He will make a way for
them. My FIL was illiterate but he could read the Bible - (KJV) and
had no problem with difficult words, apparently he got the concept and he
understood enough to be assured of his own salvation and believe me,
he walked the walk daily - enough to influence me more than anyone I had
met to that point. judyt
jt: JOHN a dead baby
is not my problem. I have a Heavenly Father whose nature and character
is love and so I
leave all those kinds of problems with
Him cause I don't have to know everything. However, what about the
babies of the Amorites and these other
nations God was so disgusted with? I mean the ones where Israel was told
not to let even one animal live?
In a message dated 1/10/2005 11:42:20
AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I think....correct me
if I'm wrong, John....
that John is
saying that a child is "saved" when he is born. A newborn is not
cast into hell because he wasn't "born again". A child who dies goes
to heaven...until he is of the age of accountability and makes his
decision...either for God and "heavenbound", or against God and
"hellbound".
Kay
Interesting and close to what I do
believe. Judy - is a dead baby going to heaven or
hell. I am sure your theology allows for such
-- just interested in how that happens.
John
