A dead baby may not be your problem, Judy, but it's many
people's rather traumatic problem. People wonder where their family
members GO...especially their children.... when they die. Death
is a very real problem most of us have to deal with at one time or
another. The death of a child is probably a pain so great that I can't
even imagine it.
jt: True Kay but what point is there in borrowing trouble. I
trust the Lord to give me the grace to deal with it if and when the
time comes. I understand that people
question these things. My own mother has been asking why my sister was
taken at 60yrs for the past 16yrs and she just had her 99th birthday.
However, if you told her the truth she wouldn't receive it. Yes
the pain is great but pulling a rabbit out of a hat to make them
feel better is no long term solution.
This was not the context of the discussion,
Judy, nor the question John asked. There was nothing about
borrowing trouble. The discussion was about being born in sin...would
that affect salvation...what about a baby who doesn't get much of a
life, who can't make the choice between God or not of God? John said:
Judy - is a dead baby going to heaven or hell.
I am sure your theology allows for such -- just
interested in how that happens. You answered
by saying a dead baby is not your problem. Now you say there's no
point in borrowing trouble. I think it's a simple yes or no answer. Is
a baby going to heaven? Is a baby going to
hell?
jt: Taking on questions I don't know the answer to is
IMO "borrowing trouble" Kay. John is asking me to make
a
judgment or determination that
neither he or I know the answer to.
John is simply saying babies aren't accountable. Haven't you
ever had a friend who miscarried or lost their baby to being
stillborn, or died from SIDS, hit by a drunk driver, or from their
immunizations? Haven't you known a family whose child died in an
accident? Catholics would tell you the child goes to some in-between
place unless the infant has been baptized.
jt: I have miscarried myself and yes, I know
how that is but John does not know everything and it's OK to be honest
and admit it.
It has nothing to do with what John knows or
doesn't know. The discussion is centered on salvation....who
has it and who doesn't.
jt: Those who have it should
have assurance by way of the indwelling Spirit. If you can find
the answer to John's
question in scripture - please tell me where
it is at. I know that King David was sure the child he had with
Bathsheba was with the Lord
- even though David had sinned/repented, he was a son of the
Covenant. I am not so sure
about
the offspring of idolators. Do you
think the firstborn of the Egyptians who God allowed to be killed went
to be with Him and if your answer is yes - what do you base this
on?
We don't have to know everything, but we can certainly have
some tools to be an encouragement to others so we may minister to them
in empathy and love. If a young mother just had a miscarriage, or had
a baby stillborn, would you say to her.....Gee, your dead baby isn't
my problem? I have a heavenly father whose nature is
love...... What if that young mother was a non-Believer? What do
you think she would think/feel about a God who is love?
Kay
jt: Of course I wouldn't say that to someone
who is grieving Kay but neither would I give them false hope. I see it
as an opportunity to encourage them to seek God's answers in His Word
for themselves. Too many people look to others for all the
answers. Helping and encouraging them is one thing.....
How does false hope come into the
picture? What if the mom is illiterate and simply CAN'T read what
the Word says? What if mom's reading/comprehension skills are lacking
and she doesn't understand the difficult words in Scripture?
Kay
jt: It's impossible to stand on "what
if?" - that's a Henny Penny philosophy. If one determines to seek God
with their whole heart He will make a way for them. My FIL was
illiterate but he could read the Bible - (KJV) and had no problem with
difficult words, apparently he got the concept and he understood
enough to be assured of his own salvation and believe me, he
walked the walk daily - enough to influence me more than anyone I had
met to that point.
judyt
jt: JOHN a dead
baby is not my problem. I have a Heavenly Father whose nature and
character is love and so I
leave all those kinds of problems
with Him cause I don't have to know everything. However, what
about the babies of the Amorites and
these other nations God was so disgusted with? I mean the ones where
Israel was told not to let even one
animal live?
In a message dated 1/10/2005
11:42:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I think....correct
me if I'm wrong, John....
that John
is saying that a child is "saved" when he is born. A newborn is
not cast into hell because he wasn't "born again". A child who
dies goes to heaven...until he is of the age of accountability
and makes his decision...either for God and "heavenbound", or
against God and "hellbound".
Kay
Interesting and close to what I do
believe. Judy - is a dead baby going to heaven or
hell. I am sure your theology allows for such
-- just interested in how that happens.
John