please provide some other passages where Sanctification is an
"ONGOING EVENT"
I do not know of any, but, contrary to Judy's
claim, I can show you several that speak of the act of our sanctification
in the passive voice. Would you like to see some of them?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 9:01
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
please provide some other passages where Sanctification is an "ONGOING
EVENT"
Perhaps these? Should we insert "Being" sanctified?
if not these there must be some other evidence for the ONGOING EVENT of
sanctification.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed,
but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and
by the Spirit of our God.
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all
that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's
and our's
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are
sanctified are all of one
HB 10:10 By the which will we are
sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once
for all
JUDE 1:1 to them that are sanctified
by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ
Seems they are all present tense must be a KJV thingy
Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Not in my NASB 1974 no marginal note on Heb 10:14
Sorry my "Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament"
Berry April 2005 reads as the KJV
No I agree the past tense
"circumvents" ENTIRELY
Most translate thus & in addition to many Scholars I too believe
this is the best translation of the text as given.
How do you see "ONE OFFERING" becoming an ON GOING EVENT?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Two things -- I found my Berry's interlinear
and it reads exactly like Green's.
Secondly -- do you disagree with this statement :
In the English, this past tense translation circumvents ENTIRELY the
impact of sanctification as an ongoing event by another
in our lives ?
The NASV gives the same translation as the KJ but , at least, the
marginal note lets the reader know that the text actually reads "being
sanctified."
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:29:31 -0800
(PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
The tense is simply as to relation to the action.
The action is past tense.
So what is the problem?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have Jay Green's interlinear (among others). He
is a big fan of the textus receptus. At any rate
- I think Bill's point
(correct me if I am wrong, Bill) is that the KJ translation gives us a past tense
translation of a present tense participle. There is no good reason
for doing such and in that context, it is a "mistake." if you
don't care to see it as a "mistake," certainly one is forced to
agree that it is a less accurate translation (the past tense) than the
actual present tense. In the English, this past tense
translation circumvents ENTIRELY the impact of
sanctification as ongoing event by another in our
lives.
JD -----Original
Message----- From: Kevin Deegan
< openairmission@yahoo.com> To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:34:48 -0800
(PST) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/ revisor
What greek text
is that? Not NA 27 or
26! LOL Watch out Dean
you have now been labeled a dreaded "Works salvationist" It is not very far (or long I might add)
before you will become a Kentucky Baptist! And please do not use the
Lame excuse that you are Wesleyan as such trivial matters are no concern
to JD[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The greek text (the holy and
inspired KJV greek
text, by the way) says "He has perfected FOR EVER then that are
(being) sanctified" Heb 10:14.
One of several differences between your side of the fence and
ours is bound to the fact that you (all) do not have a clue as to what
it means ti "have been perfected by another --
namely Jesus Christ." How could you. You are a
committed works salvationist.
cd: Am I to understand you to
mean that one doesn't learn and grow-one is already
perfect?
Your question above is an illustration of this very
point. A couple of questions -- which,
of course, your side will not answer: do you
deny that the KJ greek text
says what it says? When you see the word
"perfected," do you think it always includes the concepts of growth and
maturity? the KJV actually states that we have
been "perfected for ever." Do you argue that this translation is
in error? If not -- and how could you --
on what theological grounds could this statement be true since the
action of sanctification is not
yet completed?
JD
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:15:17
-0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
11/21/2005 11:22:52 PM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
They are not "being perfected." They are
being sanctified. I believe that "sactification" is the work of God within
the believer -- its finale is expressed [in part] in a visible difference
(holiness) between "us" and "them." In this example, we
are passively involved to the glory of God. Perfection, in this scripture, is a
done deal -- Him dying ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME
for us.
JD
cd: Am I to understand you to mean that one doesn't learn and
grow-one is already perfect?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:17:39 -0800
(PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
KJV For by one offering
he hath perfected for ever them that are
sanctified.
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971,
1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman
Foundation For by one offering He has perfected
for all time those who are sanctified.
Youngs Literal translation for
by one offering he hath perfected to the end those
sanctified
ASV For by one offering he hath
perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
NKJV For by one offering He has
perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NIV
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are
being made holy.
If Christ's offering gives eternal
perfection, as the first half of the verse claims, why does the rest
of the verse say that we are BEING
'perfected'?
Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net>
wrote:
cd: see the Bottom
of page.
-----
Original Message -----
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent:
11/21/2005 10:08:48 AM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
Since the theme has been that
of perfection, I thought I would keep it going with a look at
Hebrews 10.14. The KJV says, "For by
one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are
sanctified." A cursory reading of this verse may leave one with
the impression that the "perfected" are those whose
sanctification is complete: they are, after
all, "sanctified," aren't they? Well, not if one's
concern is with holding true to the "pure" word of God as set
forth in the "Received Text." In the Greek this participle
is a present tense in the passive voice. If one were
desiring to reflect that voice in his translation and thereby
hold true to the grammar and intent of the "majority text,"
this participle would best be translated as
"those who are being sanctified," thereby
reflecting a sanctification which is
passive (i.e.., the action is being
pe rformed by someone
other than the subject) and not yet complete. Hence according to this, Christ
has perfected forever (a completed action), not those who are
presently sanctified (also a completed action), but those
who are in the process of being sanctified: a fairly significant difference, it seems to
me. Bill
So this is an example
of how the KJV is
in error Bill?
IMO the error is
with your understanding rather than with the text of
the KJV
translation. You have read something into the text that is
not there and have made a straw man to knock down.
The word sanctification does not necessarily mean an action
being performed; the
same word is used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving wife who
is sanctified (set apart, consecrated) by the faith of her
husband. In this sense "sanctified" means something
entirely different from what you describe. So IOW "By one offering
Jesus has perfected for ever them that are set apart,
consecrated (or sanctified)."
I have a huge banner that says the same thing you
banner say on 1 John 2:4-I will send you a picture of it
sis :-)
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)
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