DAVEH: To me it seems a bit too dogmatic to see folks going to
ridiculous extremes to validate their position. (That's not to say I
haven't been accused of such myself!) But I really do appreciate your
point about digging deep and discovering new and interesting things.
Sure, I can see a distinction between a copyist's error, and a
translating error. One could argue that correctly translating the
copiest's error is evidence the translator is extremely accurate. That
begs the question though.....Is it better to have accuracy in the
translation, or accuracy in truth. And, being absolutely accurate in
translating an error does not necessarily mean that the translator's
work on a whole is reliable. As you've pointed out before, the
punctuation can have a big effect on the meaning.....is it not the
translator who determines the punctuation? And if so, then are we not
left to wonder/hope/presume he was duly inspired at the time he put his
spin on the Message?
David Miller wrote:
Hi Dave.
I don't think you can imagine the joy I get when harmonizing
some passages. I agree that some people carry it too far if they are
not open to the idea that there might just be mistakes. Nevertheless,
those who are too eager to accept mistakes miss out on some interesting
study.
When I looked up the passage about Solomon's stables some years
ago, you cannot imagine my amazement to discover the yod in the actual
Hebrew text. The lexicons all make out like the word is the same.
Then, to realize that the yod is 10, and to see the math all work out,
well, it certainly brings to bear what Jesus said when he said not one
jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all be fulfilled.
Concerning your example of the age of Jehoiachin, I am not aware
of any explanation other than a copyist error here. That is not the
same thing as a translation error. I hope you can appreciate this
distinction. It also does not mean that the text was wrong in the
autographs. Furthermore, it is noteworthy that we can use our
knowledge of this matter to know that Jehoiachin was 18 and not 8, so
the truth has not been lost.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, November 23, 2005 3:52 AM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
DAVEH: Thank you for taking the time to respond, DavidM. I know you
are a busy guy, and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
As I see it, when one goes to extremes to harmonize numerous
apparent discrepancies to fit one's belief paradigm, it reduces the
credibility of the believer. If there were just one example of such
numerical errors in the Bible, perhaps rationalizing it would be
understandable. But to do it time after time on passages that seem out
of whack causes an independent spectator to conclude that the guy doing
the rationalizing probably has a tendency to rationalize other
doctrines that are not quite so trivial. To me it would seem much
better to reexamine the basic root belief that forces one to do the
harmonizing. Why stick to a theory that is not obviously and
explicitly Biblically supported.....especially when there are so many
examples that bring the theory into serious question. Isn't it just
better to believe the Bible as far as it is translated correctly rather
than die on the hill that claims it is absolutely translated
correctly? Common sense dictates it is risky to believe any given
translation reflects the Word of God correctly in all instances.
For instance, what are your thoughts on........
2Kgs 24
[8] Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign,
and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was
Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
.......and........
2Chr. 36
[9] Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and
he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that
which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
...........Do those discrepancies strike you as a distinct error that
has crept into the KJV Bible, or do you feel comfortable harmonizing
them?
David Miller wrote:
Dean wrote:
1Kg 4:26---Solomon had 40,000 stalls for the horses
2Chronicles 9:25---Solomon had 4,000 stalls for the horses
cd: Can the KJV be so accurate that is talking of two different
timelines and that the barn might have grown? Or can it be
possibly speaking of two different barns one with 40,000 and
another with 4,000 stalls which he bestowed to the chariot cities
and the King of Jerusalem 2 CHR: 9: 25?
Perhaps, but I think the point is that the King James says "stalls" in both
places.
Some scholars point out that the word translated in 2 Chron. 9:25 is
slightly different. It has a yod in it that is lacking in the word found in
1 Kings 4:26. The yod stands for ten, so some think that 2 Chron. 9:25
refers to 4,000 stables, each with 10 stalls in it, and the 1 Kings 4:26
passage refers to each individual stall, making 40,000 in all.
Dean wrote:
........or........
Mt 10:10 and Lk 9:3 where no staves are to be taken
compared to Mk 6:8 where a staff is to be taken
cd: I will have to study this comparison more it may
be one of those things taken out of the Bible that allows
Satan to have great power over us and make a great
many stumble.(I Nephi 13:29) I mean without a staff
how can one beat him off right? Maybe he likes some
(Mathew,John...etc) and told them to take staffs-but
then there is Judas and his bunch ( similar to your
side of the room) whom he maybe told not to take staffs
to give them the butt kicking they deserved:-) Who really
knows-right?
Consider that in Mark 6:8, the word staff is singular, whereas in the other
passages, it refers to staves (plural). Also note how the Mat. passage
refers to not taking shoes (plural). The Mark passage refers to being shod
with sandals. Therefore, the solution here is that they were to take one
staff but not more than that, one pair of sandals that they wore, but not
extra.
I think it is interesting that Mark is the one who focuses upon these
individual items being allowed, because he was the one who abandoned Paul
and Barnabas on their apostolic ministry trip. It seems to me that he might
have picked Peter's brain a bit about exactly what they were allowed to
bring with them. :-)
DaveH, I don't think there is any translating problem in these latter
passages. You have a point about the first examples.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
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http://www.langlitz.com
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