Jonathan
It was a <b>joke</b>, not meant to hurt anyone.
Not to worry. It wasn't really offensive.
OTOH, it was notably not funny also. It was just sort of annoying really.
I'm sorry you didn't like it, I can't help that. I apologize, ask your forgiveness,
Oh, never mind. Just, if you don't have anything to say, then maybe you shouldn't say anything.
and in any case, retreat fully from the conversation between people who admittedly dwarf my talent and intellect.
Well, don't assume that all the people around here are of such great talent and intellect.
I'm not annoyed at you, Keith. I'm annoyed at the guy who engaged in the phony posturing that I was "bullying" the list because I responded sharply to your post.
All fun and games. I don't have much time for it.
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
I'm a newbie, and neither understand, nor speak for the Turbine community.
Sincerely, honestly and finally
Keith
On a side note, I do hope this thread can stop (if not
On Sunday, June 22, 2003, at 08:30 AM, Jonathan Revusky wrote:
Chris K Chew wrote:
Well, I think we can officially say that this thread should be closed.
Jonathan, I appreciate your work on the FreeMarker project. Bullying the
turbine-user list certainly won't cause us to support FreeMarker any sooner.
Chris (and all Turbine developers)
You guys have to start being more honest. I have participated on this list long enough to have come to the conclusion that there is simply not a culture here that is based on a high respect for the truth.
Take this above statement that I'm "bullying the list". I simply responded sharply to a moronic post from Keith -- reread it, why don't you? This utterly moronic crap about FM and Ham radio and so on. It seemed like the start of some kind of obnoxious "Greek chorus" kind of low-level harassment.
Whether I should respond to the provocation is one thing. (Probably not, though I thought it made sense just to shut it down immediately.) But to say that I'm "bullying" the list on the basis of my responding to somebody else's provocation!!!???
That is highly dishonest on your part, Chris. Shame on you! Did your parents bring you up to tell such falsehoods?
However, it's not just you. There has been a clear lack of honesty in my interchanges with Turbine people. It started when Henning P. Schmiedehausen claimed (this occurred in dialogue on the Velocity-dev list) that FM support was removed because nobody was using it. In a later post, he noted that, though it "taken him ages to realize it" (:-)) he was aware that FM and WM were *never* supported on an equal footing to Velocity.
IOW, the whole situation was rigged from the get-go. This also means that Henning's earlier claim that nobody was using, and thus, there was no interest on the part of users was, at best, a very contrived half-truth.
I pointed out that this was equivalent to a situation in which 3-day-old fish was offered on the menu, nobody ordered it, and this was taken as proof that there was no interest on anybody's part in eating fish. It is highly provocative when people start with these ridiculously contrived arguments. I asked Henning how he would react if in my shoes if somebody "laid this line of bullshit on him".
He then postured that he was extremely offended by me and so on and so forth. In fact, he engaged in ad-hominem to avoid the point, which was how he would react to somebody else's dishonesty in this spot.
One Peter Riegsberger then claimed that I was the one engaging in ad-hominem and that I had questioned Henning's technical competence.
That was a falsehood. I had never questioned Henning's technical competence.
Peter then claimed that he understood valid argumentation. Well, he didn't seem to understand that untruthful statements are not a valid form of argumentation. And I think that is a very basic point.
I am also dealing with incredible amounts of rudeness. That people to whom I have taken such a deep personal dislike can make use of my work free of charge is one thing. But that people then engage in this posturing where the implicit idea is that, by leveraging my hard work, they are doing *me* a favor!!!???
I am convinced that there is just no consciousness here of how arrogant, obnoxious, and also STUPID you guys come across as.
That a project is dominated by rude, arrogant, self-righteous people, who are disrespectful of others, that is one thing. However, when the members are also disrespectful of the truth, I think that's the kiss of death. I do not believe that much can be achieved in technical fields without a respect for the truth.
Thus, I am not optimistic about the future of Turbine, and thus, my already minimal interest in the FM-Turbine integration is diminished even further.
I hope you can understand my position here. I anticipate that you are likely to engage in more posturing in which you say I'm such a terrible guy and so on and in which you indulge in more falsehoods. I don't care.
I just say that you guys should start being more honest. There is also a notable lack of certain other human qualities here: humility, respect for others, and so on. You could work on that as well. However, the lack of honesty is really what is going to do you in. Honesty is absolutely necessary in a technical endeavor.
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
Turbine Developers, Perhaps it is time that we move the details of any development repercussions this discussion has created over to the turbine-dev list?
Chris
-----Original Message----- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Revusky Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 5:52 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Decimal Number support
Unknown (Keith Seim) wrote:
I think FM is great - you get good sound, it's free, and the technology
costs close to nothing. I don't know about these other
frequencies, but
I doubt they're stereo (maybe they're like ham radio... you have to pay
for a licence... 'course, that sound more like proprietary
software to me).
alright, shutting up now
Keith,
Do you have an excuse for this? Some mitigating circumstances? Like, do you know if your momma did a lot drinking while she was pregnant with you? Or was she doing drugs? Or maybe there's a limited gene pool in your case, like you're maybe the product of an incestuous relationship?
Or it could be all of the above...
Whatever, but if you are a congenital idiot, I think you should dissimulate it better. Everybody has their cross to bear, after all.
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky -- lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
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