I could not put it more eloquently Ross. > -----Original Message----- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Ross Ferris > Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 1:00 p.m. > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > > I think it also depends on a lot on the toolset you are using. This > approach, if you are writing code in pure pick basic, with minimal > dictionaries for the files you are using could be suicidal, yet with > the > right tools and mindset, this can be a VERY productive way of working. > In this regard, I firmly agree with what Phil said in relation to his > BI > implementations - often it is far quicker to "just do it" than to > describe what "it" is > > We have dubbed our implementation of agile, iterative development > vRapid, and we have found it works very well in practice. Sit down with > the customer, discover the data that needs to be (or is already being) > kept and design some files and dictionaries around that. Document the > inter-relationships as part of the Dictionary, and mock up some screens > with these data definitions. > > These screens get fattened out & appropriate business logic engaged > during the iterative process, and in little more than the time it would > take to develop a traditional spec you can have a fully functional > application .... and the client has been engaged 100% during the whole > process, so there are no surprises, and they are VERY HAPPY (and > because > they have seen how easy it is to accommodate change, the application IS > likely to keep on growing organically, but this is "controlled feature > creep" that you get paid for!) > > With the right framework in place, this approach can be a real winner, > and deliverables can start to flow & be deployed long before the entire > project is complete, so it can become a win/win situation > > Ross Ferris > Stamina Software > Visage > Better by Design! > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > >boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of phil walker > >Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 6:56 AM > >To: U2 Users List > >Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > > > >I agree, agile and scrum are the way to go.... > > > >However, this is not just a term for no specifications and an open > ended > >project. > > > >This methodology requires a commitment of time and effort by all > >parties, most importantly a dedicated person from the business tied to > >the project who has a stake in the project, not just a BA or someone > who > >cannot directly or quickly make decisions about what direction or > >priorities the project should take. This person, is responsible for > >seeing that the project delivers what the business requires quickly > and > >iteratively...therefore lessoning any chance that is does not deliver > >what and when. > > > >If this happens then the project will deliver what the business > requires > >when it is completed. (at least that phase). This in contrast to a lot > >off waterfall style projects where the business does not often know > what > >they need, at least in detail and so a spec is just a best guess. If > not > >then it will take a very long time to get it 99% accurate with no > >payback for the business, (it will never be 100% unless the project is > >very simple). Consequently, there will always change control issues, > >debate about who should pay for the change etc...very > unproductive...as > >well as a BA who is acting as a translator between IT and the > business. > > > >While a spec, might be technical documentation, it requires a lot of > >effort on the part of everyone to write it but more importantly to > >maintain it going forward...as I find when the going gets tough and > time > >and money is short...documentation is the first to go, a decision made > >by who is paying the bills not anyone elses...This is where agile and > >scrum come to the fore...however it does require a culture change > within > >the entire organization to that of a shared partnership between all > >parties striving for the betterment of the business rather than a > >confrontational approach which a formal spec signoff/ contract > >represents... > > > >My 2 cents. > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > >> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brenda Price > >> Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 8:31 a.m. > >> To: U2 Users List > >> Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > >> > >> Well, when our company gets this fully implemented. You can count > >over > >> 250 Highlander's Immortals on the list! > >> > >> Seriously, check out "agile" and "scrum", it is interesting. > >> > >> Brenda L Price > >> UniVerse Programmer > >> Rapid Response Team > >> Market America, Inc. > >> Greensboro, NC > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- > >> > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Lynch > >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:26 PM > >> > To: U2 Users List > >> > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > >> > > >> > Ah, it must be lovely to know that you will live forever and will > >> never > >> > become ill or incapable of working... Eventually, if the company > >> does > >> > not > >> > go out of business, or their business needs change so much that > all > >> > your > >> > code is obsolete, somebody else will have to figure out how the > >> system > >> > works. > >> > > >> > A good spec turns into good documentation, which (properly > >maintained > >> > through all the ensuing changes to the system for the changing > needs > >> of > >> > the > >> > users, of course) is a blessing to the person who follows you. > >> > > >> > Sounds like we have at least 2 of Highlander's Immortals on the > >list! > >> > ;-) > >> > > >> > Susan Lynch > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Brutzman, Bill" <bi...@hkmetalcraft.com> > >> > To: "U2 Users List" <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> > >> > Sent: 10/14/2009 3:20 PM > >> > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > John's world is similar to my world here. When I realized that > I > >> > would > >> > > be the only person reading the specs, I stopped writing to > myself. > >> > At > >> > > the risk of no longer being a professional dinosaur, I learned > >that > >> > some > >> > > people call it "agile". > >> > > > >> > > Check out... Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now". > >> > > > >> > > --B > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > U2-Users mailing list > >> > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > U2-Users mailing list > >> > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> _______________________________________________ > >> U2-Users mailing list > >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >U2-Users mailing list > >U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > >http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >
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