On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Raymond E. Griffith wrote:
> Hmmm. What would you consider fair?
--What I would consider fair (and I would hope good for all concerned) is
a reduced feature-set Rev for a reduced price that is competitive to the
other 'low end' competition. How feature reduced? Well, a script
line-limitation longer than the 10 line of the free version seems fair.
How limited? Anywhere 30-50 lines. How many platforms? If you are
targetting the education markets, it would need to support consumer
versions of MacOS and Windows as both are found in the schools and both
can be found in the homes of the students attending those schools. Other
features to be included? I'd start with taking a look at the remaining
living contenders and provide accordingly. Maybe include a feature or two
not currently available in other product so as to serve as a lure to
convert the user over; not so much as to break the corporate piggy bank.
> They consider -- and rightly so IMHO -- that Rev and MC are
> a natural extension and upgrade of HC.
--If this is so, then price IS an issue. HC works out of the box for
about $100. Not good enough for some pro developers, but certainly many
an elementary school teacher has able to create educational products with
HC right out of the box without being told they needed to engage in
sphagetti-coding or breaking their piggy bank.
> There are a *lot* of factors that go into this. My
> understanding is that if you are a hobbyist, you are allowed
> to play with full functionality for free, with the single
> exception of the scripting limits. If you want unfettered
> access to scripting as much as you want, you pay for it.
--I agree, I am simply suggesting that there be more, smaller steps. Even
one, smaller, step. From $100 to $350 is a big gulp and risky business if
you're the sort who needs handholding in the beginning (as is often the
case with the non-computerati and educational personnel).
> Rev and MC have to choose their market well. If they don't,
> they will go out of business. Then where will you be?
--Using Supercard. Because it's what I can afford. And, even at $130,
it's what a few of my students can afford. Rev at $350 is what NONE of my
students can afford.
> > Why else hire somebody to create a policy to lure the K-12
> market?
--I notice that nobody's addressed this point yet, so let me ask again:
What is the point of aggressive (agreed) educational institution pricing
if students can't afford to purchase the same product for use at home? If
Rev can make money selling to institutions at $50 a license (or whatever
it is; I don't recall exactly but remember it was extremely reasonable),
then how is it that they can't make money selling even more copies to the
students who use those machines for the same price? This alone will keep
me from having my department adopt Rev. For close to the price of Rev,
my students, if so inclined, can buy HC and a PPC Mac to run it on. As I
said earlier, that's an additional 75 licenses a year that go unpurchased
for just one instructor at one institution. This is potential and
unrealized revenue for Rev.
> Now can you offer some solid suggestions to them, say, as to
> how much you would pay for expanding the script limits to a
> certain extent? And how much you would pay for some
> functionality disabled? For example, if they offered a
> version that produced ONLY Mac-readable stacks, would you
> pay for that, and how much?
--I believe I just have. As for Mac-only, no, because then there's no
comparative advantage to buying Rev over Supercard, and also because I
think it doesn't make sense for folks in the educational community who may
use both and not know which they're going to be using from one year to the
next. But certainly they don't need compatibility with the many varied
flavors of Unix and other (to them) obscure and geeky OSs.
> I am sure they want to have a viable business model. But
> pricing it the same as HC (or even close) won't work. HC's
> pricing/distribution model is why it is no longer supported
> and why it was never adequately developed.
--Most of what I've read seems to indicate that it was at least as much
political.. You say making an affordable-version won't work but you
don't say why. I believe I have at least offered some reasons for why it
can work.
How many educational and 'hobbyist' persons are buying Rev now? Could it
be more if the price barrier was removed?
I think so.
Judy
