Hi Chris, Thanks for the clarification.
I have been a supporter of open-source Grid Engine for over 8 years, and the last thing I wanted to see is the mailing list fragmented up. As you know OGS' mailing list was not created until Oracle announced its plan to finally shutdown the original site, because we didn't want to fork the Grid Engine community. (However, we didn't want to merge with others because there really are valid reasons, but it is too long to talk about those on this list.) Back to the usage of this list... Even on the steering committee mailing list, I was one of those who said that job ads on the "users" list discussions should not be disallowed. In my "Re: [Grid Engine Steering] job ads" (April 28) email, I said: "It is not good to have so many rules, and we can just ignore & not reply to the messages we don't like. Unless the message is totally junk, we should just leave it." Finally, let me reiterate that I've been a Grid Engine contributor for 8 years because I think that everyone on this planet is supposed to have free access to this technology. (The keyword here is "free", and I am pro-SGE not because I hate LSF or PBS) Again, I can't speak for Reuti or Ron, but given that I only have 24 hours a day, I would rather use my time on something useful (like improving Open Grid Scheduler/Grid Engine, and I am starting to share enhancements with Dave), and answering questions on this list becomes the 2nd or 3rd priority among the list of things that I wanted to/needed to do. I am staying with the Grid Engine community for at least another 10 years, and this change is just a way of moving Open Grid Scheduler/Grid Engine forward - so don't blame me for not answering non-opensource Grid Engine related questions or not answering as quickly questions on this list. Rayson On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 4:47 PM, Chris Dagdigian <d...@sonsorol.org> wrote: > Hi Rayson, > > Did not mean to imply that it was you who made those statements - I actually > thought you were referring to or quoting someone else who had attempted in > the past to dictate what the community list can be used for. All I wanted to > say was that nobody can dictate how this list is used and it would be a > shame if our mailing-list/support group started to fragment up. > > That said, however, I 100% understand that support can't be a given when the > source is not available. I'll keep my UD-product questions to Univa when I'm > dealing with their versions. > > -dag > > > Rayson Ho wrote: >> >> Hi Chris, >> >> I *DID NOT* say that all discussions related to Univa Grid Engine had >> to be banned. As we don't have the Univa Grid Engine source code, we >> just can't debug the problem. That's basically the same reason Bill >> asked others to turn to Oracle for help with issues related to Oracle >> Grid Engine back in March 2011: >> >> http://gridengine.org/pipermail/users/2011-March/000288.html >> >> Not only that we don't have the source code, Univa Grid Engine is not >> even available as a free download. I am not interested in registering >> for Univa's trival license, and this means we can't reproduce the >> problem. >> >> When I said that "we also cannot help users using UGE which is also >> not opensource", I mean that, we, as people who answered literally >> thousands of questions on the Grid Engine mailing lists, have to >> speculate whether it is a bug in UGE or it really is a limitation. >> This is not productive, and you have to understand that our time, like >> everyone's is not free. We don't have 48 hours a day while Univa only >> has 24. And besides, Univa knows how to solve its own customers >> issues. >> >> >>> Like many users of the Oracle branded SGE I was hopefully assuming faster >>> and more targeted support would be available ... Don't we have a history >>> going >>> back (like forever?) of doing that? >> >> We (at least Ron& myself, I can't speak for Reuti), helped lots of >> new users install& setup Grid Engine when Sun was in charge. Back in >> those days, Reuti, Ron,& I (and others) often responsed in minutes, >> and we enjoyed working with Sun because Sun contributed the Gridware >> source code to the open source community, and the product was >> completely open source. >> >> However, responding to mailing list messages actually took time away >> from us to do useful things. If you are using Univa Grid Engine, then >> you are paying a Univa customer (since it is commercial only). Univa >> has support engineers and they are the people who are hired to support >> Univa customers. >> >> Now Chris, tell me why my (as well as Reuti's) original response was >> not a fair& accurate answer. >> >> Rayson >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 3:54 PM, Chris Dagdigian<d...@sonsorol.org> wrote: >>> >>> Like many users of the Oracle branded SGE I was hopefully assuming faster >>> and more targeted support would be available from the smart people who >>> inhabit the users- list. Don't we have a history going back (like >>> forever?) >>> of doing that? >>> >>> Univa support is going to be my 2nd stop mainly because I'd expect it to >>> take longer to open, troubleshoot and resolve via a formal ticketing >>> system. >>> I think my issue has more to do with PAM and NIS than any deep SGE issue. >>> >>> I really have not been paying much mind to the fireworks on this list >>> recently but if the end result is that people are going to shun Oracle >>> and >>> Univa customers on this mailing list then let me be the first person to >>> complain how unfortunate and sad this state of affairs has become. >>> >>> Will we shun ScalableLogic customers next? >>> >>> Let me be perfectly blunt as nominal owner of the gridengine.org domain >>> name >>> - there is nobody on earth who has the authority (informal or otherwise) >>> to >>> declare that this mailing list can't be used to support or not-support >>> any >>> particular variant of Grid Engine. We've never given anyone that >>> authority, >>> nor should we. >>> >>> I don't want to start an entirely new complaint-fest so let me withdraw >>> my >>> question. I'll go straight to Univa on this one. >>> >>> >>> >>> dag >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bill Bryce wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>> I think the best way is to log this as an issue at Univa and we can go >>>> from there. Is this cluster for your personal use or are you >>>> configuring it >>>> on behalf of a customer? You can send an email to supp...@univa.com or >>>> login to the support portal http://www.univa.com/support and we can >>>> help. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> Bill. >>>> >>>> On 2011-11-22, at 3:32 PM, Reuti wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>> >>>>> Am 22.11.2011 um 21:05 schrieb Chris Dagdigian: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm hands-on with a shiny new cluster running Univa's 8.0.1 release >>>>>> and >>>>>> am having some issues running jobs as a non-root user via an account >>>>>> that >>>>>> lives in Active Directory. >>>>> >>>>> isn't Univa offering "Full, Enterprise Class Support"? I thought this >>>>> is >>>>> one of the advantages over the community support for the open source >>>>> version. So I would assume they have their own forum/list like Oracle >>>>> does >>>>> for their version: >>>>> >>>>> https://forums.oracle.com/forums/forum.jspa?forumID=859 >>>>> >>>>> -- Reuti >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The cluster is the standard sort of RHEL 5.7 based system but we are >>>>>> using Centrify and in particular the Centrify >>>>>> NIS-gateway-to-ActiveDirectory >>>>>> to service the cluster nodes without having to license centrify on all >>>>>> nodes >>>>>> in the cluster. >>>>>> >>>>>> The user errors I see are familiar ones: >>>>>> >>>>>> "can't get password entry for user "x". Either user does not exist or >>>>>> NIS error!" >>>>>> >>>>>> The confusing thing is that I can SSH into compute nodes as the same >>>>>> user and both password logins and passwordless SSH work perfectly. >>>>>> It's only >>>>>> when running under SGE that the jobs fail. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I had to guess I'd wonder first if SSHD was using Linux /etc/pam.d/ >>>>>> in a way that "works" while SGE is accessing PAM in some way that we >>>>>> have >>>>>> not configured properly yet. That's only a guess though. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone have examples of SGE running via NIS authentication or via >>>>>> Centrify? Any examples of PAM configuration that were needed to get >>>>>> NIS >>>>>> users recognized under SGE? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> -Chris >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> users mailing list >>>>>> users@gridengine.org >>>>>> https://gridengine.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> users mailing list >>>>> users@gridengine.org >>>>> https://gridengine.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>>> >>>> William Bryce | VP of Products >>>> Univa Corporation - 1001 Warrenville Road, Suite 100 Lisle, Il, 65032 >>>> USA >>>> Email bbr...@univa.com | Mobile: 512.751.8014 | Office: 416.519.2934 >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> users mailing list >>> users@gridengine.org >>> https://gridengine.org/mailman/listinfo/users >>> > _______________________________________________ users mailing list users@gridengine.org https://gridengine.org/mailman/listinfo/users
