A compromise could be just to have Ant projects marked as depricated and to have a working alternative.
Wayne On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 21:33, Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > No one is suggesting removing support for Ant altogether. > > The suggestion is to remove the possibility of creating new Ant projects. > > Gj > > On Tue, 20 Apr 2021 at 21:32, Thomas Wolf <tjw...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> +1 for not removing ant support for me as well. I’m admittedly an >> old-timer. My first exposure to a ‘modern’ build tool was on my last job - >> the company used gradle. With a background in make and ant, I found its >> syntax hard to grok. NB devs clearly like Maven - its syntax seems >> straight-forward enough, but the tool seems relatively slow and if you have >> an existing ant-based project whose directory structure doesn’t match >> maven’s desired one, moving to maven may not be as straight forward as some >> suggest. And, how is the uptake of Ivy? Isn’t that (in combination with >> ant) considered a modern build tool? If NB removes support for ant >> altogether, it would not be able to handle ivy-based projects, no? >> >> tom >> >> >> On Apr 20, 2021 at 3:10:04 PM, Marco Rossi <ma...@markreds.it> wrote: >> >>> +1 also for me to not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) >>> projects. >>> >>> Mark Reds >>> >>> Il giorno 20 apr 2021, alle ore 20:08, Mitch Claborn < >>> mitch...@claborn.net> ha scritto: >>> >>> >>> +1 for not eliminating Ant support for new (or existing) projects. We've >>> been using Ant for a long time, and it still works just fine for us, so >>> there is no payback in converting to Maven. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mitch >>> >>> >>> On 4/20/21 12:10 PM, Lisa Ruby wrote: >>> >>> > For those of you who have used Maven for a long time it may seem >>> simple and straightforward, but for those of us who haven't it's not. I've >>> struggled to try and understand it and figure out how to use it for my >>> software project and gave up. And it's a huge amount of overhead, extra >>> disk space usage, and more bits and pieces to keep track of that isn't >>> justifiable for small simple projects. ANT works just fine for me, and I >>> will keep using it for as long as I possibly can. I need to focus my time >>> on getting my software out, not on the tools I have to use to do it. >>> >>> > Lisa >>> >>> > On 4/20/2021 10:00 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: >>> >>> >> I agree, the Ant-based project creation should be removed and I >>> disagree that there should be any kind of conversion between Ant and Maven >>> -- that simply will never work and we'll spend the rest of our days fixing >>> bugs in that. To convert from Ant to Maven: create a new Maven project and >>> copy the Java source files from your Ant project into it. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Gj >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 6:58 PM <pszud...@throwarock.com <mailto: >>> pszud...@throwarock.com>> wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> Honestly, I think NB should have an internal conversation about >>> >>> >> removing the "new project" support for Ant projects, while still >>> >>> >> being able to open existing ones. It just confuses a lot of people >>> >>> >> if they're not going to be supported. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I agree, if and ONLY if you provide at least a rudimentary way to >>> >>> >> convert ANT projects to Maven projects. I have been struggling >>> >>> >> with this issue too long. I have hundreds of Ant based projects >>> >>> >> that I would love to turn over immediately to Maven... but I can't >>> >>> >> , am struggling, and haven't coded a darn line in two months... I >>> >>> >> used to code 10 hours a day ... and now... embarrassed by my >>> >>> >> inability to convert.,. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> I exaggerate a bit, I still code in "Old" Netbeans 8.2, but I know >>> >>> >> the days are numbered... >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> On 2021-04-20 08:23, Will Hartung wrote: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 12:55 AM Wayne Gemmell | Connect >>> >>> >>> <wa...@connect-mobile.co.za <mailto:wa...@connect-mobile.co.za>> >>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Is the perception that nobody does Maven EAR's anymore or >>> >>> >>> that nobody uses EARs? I have a web app that has given me no >>> >>> >>> shortage of issuse with ant. >>> >>> >>> I'm trying to move it to Maven. If nobody is using maven then >>> >>> >>> I need to move to something else. If nobody is using EAR's >>> >>> >>> anymore then I'm pretty stuck figuring out this Maven issue. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Well, it's several things. >>> >>> >>> EARs are less popular because their necessity has been greatly >>> >>> >>> reduced. Session beans can be placed in WARs now, so for many use >>> >>> >>> cases, a WAR is completely adequate to the task. >>> >>> >>> However, it's not suitable for all use cases. >>> >>> >>> Notably, MDBs can not be deployed in WARs. But only as an EJB >>> >>> >>> either deployed standalone, or bundled within an EAR. >>> >>> >>> With the hue and cry over micro services and "down with the >>> >>> >>> monolith", just the idea of a large application bundled in a EAR >>> >>> >>> is falling out of favor. >>> >>> >>> Also, there's a history of advocacy underlying this. Sun used >>> >>> >>> NetBeans as a mechanism to advocate for Java and Java EE. It >>> >>> >>> behooved them to have something like NetBeans to make Java EE >>> >>> >>> development easier. So, it was important for NetBeans to have >>> >>> >>> really first class Java EE support. Bundling the Java EE wizards >>> >>> >>> and templates along with Glassfish all helped promote that. >>> >>> >>> Of course, now, with the great Java Diaspora out of Oracle, the >>> >>> >>> goals and drivers are different. >>> >>> >>> For your project, if all you have is a web app and some session >>> >>> >>> beans, then a simple WAR file is good to go. The Ant projects >>> >>> >>> seem to essentially be deprecated now, so I would not rely on >>> >>> >>> those for anything. If practical, especially if your project is >>> >>> >>> young, I would migrate it to Maven. The Maven WAR is a pretty >>> >>> >>> simple project and seems to work ok. Maven isn't going away any >>> >>> >>> time soon, Gradle, it's primary competitor, doesn't really have >>> >>> >>> the traction to overcome it yet, and it's been going for some >>> >>> >>> time. If nothing else, the pom.xml file has become a de facto >>> >>> >>> portable project format if, for nothing else, to capture >>> >>> >>> dependencies. >>> >>> >>> Honestly, I think NB should have an internal conversation about >>> >>> >>> removing the "new project" support for Ant projects, while still >>> >>> >>> being able to open existing ones. It just confuses a lot of >>> >>> >>> people if they're not going to be supported. >>> >>> >>> And I still haven't heard any concrete position the project has >>> >>> >>> on internalizing Maven archetypes used for project wizards, or >>> >>> >>> the process of adopting that. >>> >>> >>> Legacy archetypes that used to work in NB 8 are now failing >>> >>> >>> because they've vanished from Maven central. So, an external >>> >>> >>> dependency broke an internal feature. >>> >>> >>> Feel free to follow up with specific questions about getting your >>> >>> >>> project to work and/or converted to Maven. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> Will Hartung >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >>> >>> >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >>> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@netbeans.apache.org >>> >>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists >>> >>>
