Christopher, You make a good point. Sometimes Safari and the iPhone work great on a website, other times Jaws and IE or Jaws and Firefox do a great job. How often have I started to sign up for a service or something using IE only to find a captcha with no audio option after pressing Next 3 times. Then I had to go and do it all over in Firefox where I have Webvisum available to solve the captcha.
I do woodworking as a hobby and I don't cut every piece of wood with my table saw. Sometimes I use a miter saw, a jig saw or even a hand saw. In the same way I think we have to take advantage of the tools available to us when it comes to reading emails etc. I love the Mail app on the iPhone, but I would never use it for Viphone because I don't need to hear 100 dings each day when messages come in and I can go through 100 messages and reply to 10 of them much much faster on my PC than I ever could on my phone. On the other hand I prefer to use the Booking.com app for making a hotel reservation over using the booking.com website on the computer and the same goes for using the Trip Advisor app over the Trip Advisor website which is really cluttered and full of ads. Regards, Sieghard -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 4:13 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: When will Apple take this seriously? When you say: > As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. I assume you're talking about the latest Windows Phone 8 smart phone and Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8. Windows Windows Mobile and Mobile Speak were different products. Also, as you say Mobile Accessibility for Windows Phone 8 only gives you a suite of accessible apps. this is very different from Talks, which was a 3rd party screen reader giving you access to the operating system and numerous apps on your smart phone. I agree, sometimes Safari and VoiceOver is going to give you the best access to a web site, but I've also had trouble with this combination when Chrome or Orca and Firefox or some other combination gave me better results. On 11/10/2013 05:36 PM, David Chittenden wrote: > Thank you for that summary. I just started reading this thread. > > The only point I can confirm is item 3. VO has a difficult time tracking in Safari when filling out complex forms. To be fair, many of the forms VO struggles with are also extremely difficult on the computer. They have quite a bit to do with newer web technologies. Other places where VO struggles appear to not move the visual page on the display as one flicks through the form using right flicks. When the button or edit box is not on the visual screen, it will not activate with a double or even, triple tap. However, there is a work-around that works for most websites I have tried. Physically find the edit field and hold your finger on it. This locks it on the visual display. Split-tap with another finger and the edit box is locked in with the keyboard. Because of rapid screen refreshes, it may be impossible to then flick to the next edit field. In this case, locate the done button above the o and p letters on the keyboard and double-tap it. This releases the edit field and one can now locate the next edit field. Follow the same procedure. When finished with the form, locate the continue, submit, or otherly worded button and split-tap it. > > again, as I previously stated, because of the newer web technologies, many of these complex new web technologies are also complicated, if not impossible, for computer-based screen readers. > > In Apple's favour, I have been able to access some forms on my iPhone using the above procedure, which people on certain lists have stated that Jaws cannot access on Windows and IE 10. > > As for Talks and Nokia, the person can always go to the newest Windows Mobile phone and get the latest Mobile Speak for it. This is a specifically written app with six features in it. Nothing else can be accessed on the phone, so it will be very similar to the old Nokia with Talks. > > David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA > Email: dchitten...@gmail.com > Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 11 Nov 2013, at 10:13, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> Here is my summary of this entire thread: >> >> The original poster complained about 3 items and pointed out a fourth: >> >> 1. Hanging up phone calls is unreliable 2. He can't tap on a phone >> number in a text message or email to dial it or save it to contacts >> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >> >> Then Pablo jumped in with his well-known rant about how horrible >> Apple is in general because they make such expensive and terrible >> devices which don't work, where people are forced to upgrade to iOS 7 >> and where generally accessibility is terrible and where Pablo's >> "rights" are violated in a number of ways. >> >> As for Pablo's arguments, I have actually agreed with him in a very >> general way that Apple should give people the option to say if they >> wanted a new iOS to download automatically or not. At first I didn't >> see his point, but he argued this point well and I agree there should >> be such an option. However, this is in my view the only issue. Apple >> is not forcing anybody to upgrade to iOS 7. Yes, they are pushing the >> update and it takes up space on your phone, but you do not have to >> install it and I'll challenge anybody who says that iOS 7 magically >> installed on their phone without them doing anything or twice >> agreeing to the terms and conditions which simply does not happen. If >> Apple were to allow down the road that one could turn off the >> automatic downloading then nobody including Pablo could complain in >> any way because at that point if they upgrade it is entirely their >> choice. It's already their choice, but let's say somebody has an 8 Gb >> phone and they really need to free up that space so they install it, >> that is just a little big of pressure there even though you still decide to put up with iOS 7 in return for getting back 2 Gb of space on your phone. >> >> Now, as to the 4 items above: >> >> 1. Hanging up calls is unreliable >> I actually find the 2-finger double tap works better in iOS 7 but >> that is just my opinion. I think it's pretty safe to say though that >> it works at least as well and I have up to this point and it's now 2 >> months since iOS 7 was released, not seen a single post where >> somebody asked about or mentioned a problem with the 2-finger double tap to hang up. >> There is of course the other way to hang up a call which works 100% >> and that is to touch the End Cal lbutton which is really not hard to >> find as it's right there about the ome Key and to double tap it. >> As somebody else pointed out, it's not hard to check whether a call >> was hung up or is still connected. >> >> 2. He can't tap on a phone number in a text message or email to dial >> it or save it to contacts This works flawlessly for me and judging by >> what others wrote also for them. >> A simple double tap on a phone number asks me whether I want to call >> it, a double tap and hold brings up the options to call, add to >> contacts etc. I'd really like to see how this isn't working on >> Avnish's phone who I think was the one who posted that all of this didn't work. >> >> 3. Filling out web forms is buggy. >> This one I understand is an issue, I can't comment too much on it >> since I don't use Safari much to fill out web forms. I have done a >> few Google searches andwas able to type in a search term just find, >> the same on the Audible site. Anyhow, if it is buggy then I sure hope >> those who find this so horrible have written to Apple about it. To me >> this is like voting. If I talk to somebody about politics and they >> start a big rant about the government I usually ask first if they >> voted in the last election. More than once somebody said that they >> don't vote in which case I usually tell them that they might as well >> shut up then because if they don't participate in electing the >> government then they have no right to complain. I am not saying >> Avnish hasn't written to Apple to explain places where encounters >> problems, but I see a lot of this on the list and I wonder if >> everybody also takes the time to compose a constructive email to accessibil...@apple.com to make sure they know about the issues. >> >> 4. Things worked better on his old Nokia with Talks. >> Well, what can I say, Ricardo already said it. Talks has been gone >> for some time and no Nokia phone with Talks even at its best can do >> what the iPhone can do or even get close to the level of >> accessibility iOs offers. It's of course easier to offer >> accessibility for a device which has only half the features of iOS. I >> remember trying to use Skype on my Windows Smartphone with >> MobileSpeak and it was a complete joke and waste of time. Apps were >> almost non-existent and I wore out the battery cover on my phone because I had to open it up so often to take the battery out when it crashed. >> >> Apple has done more for main stream accessibility in the last 4 years >> than all other companies combined in the last 25 years yet here >> people are complaining about the horrible accessibility and how >> buying an expensive phone apparently gives them the right to have >> perfect accessibility and everything else. Next thing I'm sure people >> thing Apple is responsible for them being blind to begin with. But of >> course Apple, the most successful tech company ever, gets bashed left >> right and centre by everybody, why not by the blind. I for one find >> it is getting old and it's very tiring. I also don't think this >> attitude will motivate Apple do do better. Constructive and detailed >> reporting of bugs, maybe I should say "real bugs" not user error bugs >> and well thought-out suggestions for improvements will eventually >> make things better, I'm sure the accessibility team is not twittling their thumbs but instead are working on fixing reported bugs and issues. >> >> >> Regards, >> Sieghard >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. 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