Stephen,
There are a number of details to the Ravi/Lawton/Meyer device which you
should know.
The 12 volts is split between 9 tubes in series, so the volts per tube
is 1.33 v. or less.
The measured current is DC - but that is current to the frequency
generator, and it is being done this way for ease and accuracy of
measurement (good!)... but from there to the tubes, the power is pulsed.
This procedure eliminates the number one (skeptics) objection - sloppy
measurement of pulsed power.
This device from Ravi is the one in the video I posted on a couple of
days ago. The builder is in India. He is an engineer.
The gas output would indicate an OU of over 5 - if it could be believed!
Obviously since there are available, even in India, small ICE engines
like the Honda 175 cc with a Carnot eff. of over 25% - then this should
self-power and close-the-loop IF it is really COP >5. We will see very
soon. I know of a similar closed-loop test which will be taking place
today or tomorrow in Germany.
There are many replication attempts ongoing - as this is but a new
wrinkle on the Stanley Meyer device, and there are many similar
electrolyzers in operation, most of them using multiple plates instead
of tubes (there are 4-5 active forums).
Meyer was never able to conclusively close-the-loop in a public demo,
although he could run a vehicle on his device for a short distance.
Big difference, especially when using an old VW engine, as Meyer did,
which has been known as an 'oil burner' (crankcase oil) from day-one,
and which oil was Meyers 'hidden' source of energy.
Personally, from everything available, I doubt that the high COP results
of Ravi will hold, as I think that most of the gas shown in the demo is
water-vapor, instead of H2/O2.
IOW his results are accurate in terms of gas evolved, but what is being
done is to transfer a lot of water vapor mechanically, using a smaller
amount of recombination-steam via the narrowly spaced tubes.
I hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it, as I have seen this exact
mechanism of super-saturated steam/water transfer before, with narrowly
spaced BG plates. It is very easy to deceive oneself with what seems
like a lot of gas, if one is so inclined... or should I say in-Klined.
Tubes would use the same MO, super-saturated steam/water transfer, but
the ballistics for mass transfer could even be better than plates.
AFAIK there is no firm evidence of closing-the-loop from any Meyer cell
to date (nor any other Faradaic, low voltage cell) but that takes a COP
of close to 5. Five is tough.
I am convinced that many experimenters like Ron Stiffler have seen OU,
but he and others are generally too intelligent to announce anything
until ... well, metaphorically... as Orson sez, "sell no wine before its
time". Why suffer the critics arrows and slings until you can close the
loop and remove all doubt ?
As to Richard's query: IMHO - if there is to be OU in water-splitting,
then the best prospect for 2007-8 seems to be higher voltage devices,
like the Mizuno glow discharge, where there is a negative resistance
range; and especially when driven by lead-acid batteries as there could
be a recharge synergy there. That is too complex to get into at the moment.
The Mizuno type of glow discharge could be OU even without LENR effect,
or a hydrino effect - but if either of those effects are there also:
then that vino is fino. That would be my bet for the quickest gateway to
opening up the hydrogen economy in the near-term.
Jones
Esa Ruoho wrote:
check out the ravi raju replication of dave lawton replication of
stanley meyer water fuel cell.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell
Among other things, it says:
... demonstrated gas evolution at 0.2 Amps (12v) in distilled water
with no electrolyte. This is impossible by the known principles of
conventional electolysis ...
Now the last time I checked the redox potential for the electrolysis of
water was a few volts (need to run to the basement to get the exact
number). 12 volts is well above the minimum needed to split water. As
far as I know, the electrolyte does not participate in the reaction at
all -- it just makes it go faster. So, the claim that it's "impossible"
to evolve gas from distilled water at 12 volts appears to be nonsense.
If they claimed the _rate_ was far higher than conventional theory would
allow at 12 volts that would be different -- but it would also be hard
to prove, as I'm not sure it's possible to put a limit on the rate of
gas evolution based solely on the voltage.
If they claimed the rate of gas evolution was higher than the input
_power_ could account for that would also be interesting. But they
don't -- they claim it's higher than the Faradic rate, which is based on
the CURRENT ALONE. With voltage something like five times higher than
the minimum needed to make the reaction go it's no violation of anything
to get out more gas than the "Faradic" rate -- it just requires that a
different mechanism be at work, such as, say, pyrolysis in tiny hot
spots on the electrodes (just to pull one possibility out of the air).
Until the evolved gas volume is too large to be accounted for by the
input POWER (rather than the input CURRENT), it's not exciting news.
Note that the claim of cold fusion is very different: Power out is
larger than electrical power in. That's the big news; the occasional
violation of the Faradic gas evolution rate is rarely mentioned as more
than a footnote in most CF papers.
oh and hes been attacked too:
http://panacea-bocaf.org/EngineerinIndia.htm
but public information drop via panacea and youtube seemed to make it
all stop.
further ravi raju / panacea WFC info:
http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/Meyerswatercell.htm
(yep, apparently they are replicating the dave lawton replication via
dave lawton, ravi raju and also the aussie part of it. should be
interesting to see what happens in the next 4 weeks.
and then theres Aaron Murakami's replication which combined the bedini
schoolgirl device and hydrogenproduction with 25watts.
in a way it seems to look like there could°be some serious
progress soon..
On 25/08/07, *R.C.Macaulay* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
Howdy Vorts,
The increase in research and experiments surrounding methods for
producing hydrogen is beginning to feed on itself.
What form and at what speed do you forecast the application of
hydrogen for energy?
Richard
--
∞
