---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ravi Raju Date: 27-Aug-2007 12:04 Subject: Re: [VO]: Hydrogen outlook? To: Esa Ruoho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi Esa, Thanks for creating interest in the replication. On saturday night I had checked for the glow Dave had mentioned sometime ago. Well, there seems to be something happening.....you can see intermittent orange glow emanating from the bottom of the WFC.....it stays for two to three secs and goes off....its not in regular time intervals....I dont know if its the same glow that Dave saw......I have no idea or clue about what it is....tried to click pictures but all of them got pixulated....the flash switches on automatically when I tried the video. I've posted this on both the forums as soon as I noticed this. I've just seen PESWiki....there are 6 videos there. I've posted two more videos after the leads were changed.....links are, 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WsKOdxLIJU 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XrLOudwRw The discussions topic mentioned is OK. Theres another parallel thread running at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3079.0.html I've posted some pictures of the conditioning in progress and some pics of WFC under construction in the above thread. Theres everything thats needed for the replication of what I did and how to go about it in both these threads. Anyone trying to replicate can get most of the clarifications needed by going through both these threads. Incase anything else is required they can post it over one of the threads and it can be clarified for everyone. Well Esa I'll run into trouble again for sure if i try close looping this system.....I know for sure that it would draw a hell of a lot of attention....i'm taking the present risk only after Ash's assurances that it would keep these people away....as it did with someone else in the US.....I was successful a few months ago but didnt talk about it till Ash convinced me to. Regards, Ravi Raju On 8/26/07, Esa Ruoho < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > hello.. i help ashtweth with panacea and am of course very interested in > your replication of the dave lawton replication :) > on the Vortex-list there has been quite a lot of talk of hydrogen - and > idecided to let them know about yours. here is what one person said, i > wonder if you have anything you would like me to add to it? do let me know. > > yours, esa > http://www.merlib.org/ > http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/ > http://www.peswiki.com/ > http://www.lackluster.org/ > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Jones Beene < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 26-Aug-2007 01:17 > Subject: Re: [VO]: Hydrogen outlook? > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > > Stephen, > > There are a number of details to the Ravi/Lawton/Meyer device which you > should know. > > The 12 volts is split between 9 tubes in series, so the volts per tube > is 1.33 v. or less. > > The measured current is DC - but that is current to the frequency > generator, and it is being done this way for ease and accuracy of > measurement (good!)... but from there to the tubes, the power is pulsed. > > This procedure eliminates the number one (skeptics) objection - sloppy > measurement of pulsed power. > > This device from Ravi is the one in the video I posted on a couple of > days ago. The builder is in India. He is an engineer. > > The gas output would indicate an OU of over 5 - if it could be believed! > Obviously since there are available, even in India, small ICE engines > like the Honda 175 cc with a Carnot eff. of over 25% - then this should > self-power and close-the-loop IF it is really COP >5. We will see very > soon. I know of a similar closed-loop test which will be taking place > today or tomorrow in Germany. > > There are many replication attempts ongoing - as this is but a new > wrinkle on the Stanley Meyer device, and there are many similar > electrolyzers in operation, most of them using multiple plates instead > of tubes (there are 4-5 active forums). > > Meyer was never able to conclusively close-the-loop in a public demo, > although he could run a vehicle on his device for a short distance. > > Big difference, especially when using an old VW engine, as Meyer did, > which has been known as an 'oil burner' (crankcase oil) from day-one, > and which oil was Meyers 'hidden' source of energy. > > Personally, from everything available, I doubt that the high COP results > of Ravi will hold, as I think that most of the gas shown in the demo is > water-vapor, instead of H2/O2. > > IOW his results are accurate in terms of gas evolved, but what is being > done is to transfer a lot of water vapor mechanically, using a smaller > amount of recombination-steam via the narrowly spaced tubes. > > I hope that I am wrong, but I doubt it, as I have seen this exact > mechanism of super-saturated steam/water transfer before, with narrowly > spaced BG plates. It is very easy to deceive oneself with what seems > like a lot of gas, if one is so inclined... or should I say in-Klined. > > Tubes would use the same MO, super-saturated steam/water transfer, but > the ballistics for mass transfer could even be better than plates. > > AFAIK there is no firm evidence of closing-the-loop from any Meyer cell > to date (nor any other Faradaic, low voltage cell) but that takes a COP > of close to 5. Five is tough. > > I am convinced that many experimenters like Ron Stiffler have seen OU, > but he and others are generally too intelligent to announce anything > until ... well, metaphorically... as Orson sez, "sell no wine before its > time". Why suffer the critics arrows and slings until you can close the > loop and remove all doubt ? > > As to Richard's query: IMHO - if there is to be OU in water-splitting, > then the best prospect for 2007-8 seems to be higher voltage devices, > like the Mizuno glow discharge, where there is a negative resistance > range; and especially when driven by lead-acid batteries as there could > be a recharge synergy there. That is too complex to get into at the > moment. > > The Mizuno type of glow discharge could be OU even without LENR effect, > or a hydrino effect - but if either of those effects are there also: > then that vino is fino. That would be my bet for the quickest gateway to > opening up the hydrogen economy in the near-term. > > Jones > > > > > > > Esa Ruoho wrote: > >> check out the ravi raju replication of dave lawton replication of > >> stanley meyer water fuel cell. > >> http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell > > > > Among other things, it says: > > > >> ... demonstrated gas evolution at 0.2 Amps (12v) in distilled water > >> with no electrolyte. This is impossible by the known principles of > >> conventional electolysis ... > > Now the last time I checked the redox potential for the electrolysis of > > water was a few volts (need to run to the basement to get the exact > > number). 12 volts is well above the minimum needed to split water. As > > far as I know, the electrolyte does not participate in the reaction at > > all -- it just makes it go faster. So, the claim that it's "impossible" > > to evolve gas from distilled water at 12 volts appears to be nonsense. > > > > If they claimed the _rate_ was far higher than conventional theory would > > allow at 12 volts that would be different -- but it would also be hard > > to prove, as I'm not sure it's possible to put a limit on the rate of > > gas evolution based solely on the voltage. > > > > If they claimed the rate of gas evolution was higher than the input > > _power_ could account for that would also be interesting. But they > > don't -- they claim it's higher than the Faradic rate, which is based on > > > the CURRENT ALONE. With voltage something like five times higher than > > the minimum needed to make the reaction go it's no violation of anything > > to get out more gas than the "Faradic" rate -- it just requires that a > > different mechanism be at work, such as, say, pyrolysis in tiny hot > > spots on the electrodes (just to pull one possibility out of the air). > > Until the evolved gas volume is too large to be accounted for by the > > input POWER (rather than the input CURRENT), it's not exciting news. > > > > Note that the claim of cold fusion is very different: Power out is > > larger than electrical power in. That's the big news; the occasional > > violation of the Faradic gas evolution rate is rarely mentioned as more > > than a footnote in most CF papers. > > > >> oh and hes been attacked too: > >> http://panacea-bocaf.org <http://panacea-bocaf.org/EngineerinIndia.htm> > /EngineerinIndia.htm <http://panacea-bocaf.org/EngineerinIndia.htm> > >> but public information drop via panacea and youtube seemed to make it > >> all stop. > >> further ravi raju / panacea WFC info: > >> http://www.panacea-bocaf.org<http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/Meyerswatercell.htm> > /Meyerswatercell.htm <http://www.panacea-bocaf.org/Meyerswatercell.htm> > >> (yep, apparently they are replicating the dave lawton replication via > >> dave lawton, ravi raju and also the aussie part of it. should be > >> interesting to see what happens in the next 4 weeks. > >> > >> and then theres Aaron Murakami's replication which combined the bedini > >> schoolgirl device and hydrogenproduction with 25watts. > >> > >> > >> in a way it seems to look like there could°be some serious > >> progress soon.. > >> > >> > >> On 25/08/07, *R.C.Macaulay* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> wrote: > >> > >> Howdy Vorts, > >> The increase in research and experiments surrounding methods > for > >> producing hydrogen is beginning to feed on itself. > >> What form and at what speed do you forecast the application of > > >> hydrogen for energy? > >> Richard > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> ∞ > > > > > > > > -- > ∞ -- ∞
