Seems like a big bunch of people knowing all but don't see anyone else doing it to prove their words. Maybe you all could settle the issue if someone did a bit of lab work and show how they think it is being done. I have tried and can not do it from any of two generators. So what is the big secret everyone seems so sure about on this list? I would like to know as it does seen very cool and a neat way to do very low power lighting.
DM -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 4:10 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: "Cold" electricity What a dodgy mess this is! 8^) Second try to send this. On Oct 29, 2007, at 11:44 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > Stephen, > >> How can you possibly think a circuit with a battery in it provides >> a more clear-cut case of OU than a circuit which lights LEDs with >> no input power at all? > > Once again - let me repeat that no one has ever claimed that there > is NO power input. How would you categorize your statement: "there is NO, ZERO, NADA, signal... merely ground, or DrS's touch"? (A copy of that message is appended below.) > No one has ever claimed that there is apples-to-apples OU. Once again the questions is handily sidestepped. The question implied is *not* is there any source of power from anywhere in the universe. The question for which there has not been a direct answer from Ron is whether there is any power deliberately supplied to the circuit in video #7. Following is a brief summary, in latest order first, of various forms in which the question has been asked or implied. On Oct 29, 2007, at 8:14 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > It's just that -- "... have already eliminated obvious inputs" -- > which is under discussion. In fact, Ron has never actually > asserted that all obvious inputs have been eliminated. > > As I said, the circuit being discussed extensively here was the one > which apparently had just a ground wire attached and no inputs. It > is by far the most anomalous item mentioned in the thread -- > everything else discussed in this thread is just arguing over > whether the input and output balance; OTOH if there's no input at > all then it's a clear cut case of something for nothing. Don't you > find that more interesting than the (possible) ability to pull more > out of an alkaline cell than the manufacture's specs claim? > > But according to the description given on the web page, the no- > input circuit /does/ have an input: the signal generator is > apparently intentionally capacitively coupled to the circuit. On Oct 29, 2007, at 9:05 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > > > Jones Beene wrote: >> Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: >>> The circuit under discussion was the one with a single ground >>> wire attached and no input. It is based on the circuit shown in >>> video #7. It is described farther down on that page. >>> >>> The one with a battery is yet something else again. >> The circuit is FAR from "something else again" and in fact was >> added later for the (apparent) sole purpose of countering >> skeptics' objection of capacitive coupling. >>>> It seems to me that the commentators here have been too quick to >>>> assume that the effect is conservative. Isn't the purpose of >>>> this forum to seek out anomalies, and this process may involve >>>> some trust in experimenters with very extensive experience in >>>> these things to have already eliminated obvious inputs. >>> >>> It's just that -- "... have already eliminated obvious inputs" -- >>> which is under discussion. In fact, Ron has never actually >>> asserted that all obvious inputs have been eliminated. >> Or else you haven't been listening. > > So if he said it, and you _were_ listening, please post the quote. > > If there was no power input to the 1-wire circuit, just what > "capacitive coupling" do you think the "skeptics" were objecting to? On Oct 28, 2007, at 2:12 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > So there still is a signal generator coupled to the device, why > couldn't it be the power source > then? > > Michel On Oct 27, 2007, at 1:48 PM, Horace Heffner wrote: > Has anyone noticed that at some point in the progress that Ron > started using an AC coupling through the bottom of the breadboard > backing plate? For example see Fig. 22 of the following: > > http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:54 PM, Horace Heffner wrote: > > I would still like to hear Ron's direct response to the question as > to whether he is supplying any input energy to the device in video #7. > > Horace Heffner > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ On Oct 22, 2007, at 1:21 AM, William Beaty wrote: > On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > >> William Beaty wrote: >>> I totally missed any announcement that self-acting or "closed-loop" >>> operation was achieved. >> >> WHOA slow down, that's not what was said. > > That's exactly what was said. Or at least strongly implied... and > then > if we made the wrong conclusions, he didn't correct us. On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:07 AM, Jones Beene wrote: > --- Horace > >>> As I stated, and the video demonstrates, the > signal > can be disconnected now after startup, but not both > the ground and the signal. > >> Nonsense! > > Only with the connotation that this experiment defies > traditional understanding...then yes, it is "nonsense" > to the mainstream. On Oct 21, 2007, at 3:27 PM, Horace Heffner wrote: > > On Oct 20, 2007, at 10:42 AM, William Beaty wrote: > >> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007, Jones Beene wrote: >> >>> I find Bill's T-coil comparison enlightening ;-) but lacking (in the >>> sense of apples-to-oranges) wrt to the latest experiment -- where >>> there >>> is NO, ZERO, NADA, signal... merely ground, or DrS's touch. >> >> Ah, that's different! >> >> :) > > and ... that is probably not true that there is no signal applied. > If you will notice there is no mention of closing the loop or self > running in the video. In fact, it appears what has likely happened > is the pan potential has been made to float, providing a capacitive > or conductive linkage to the breadboard ground, the closed path to > the "ground" supplied by the clip or hand. The power is supplied > through the pan. Since the supplied power is AC, this is no > different from attaching the clip to the power supply and using the > capacitive link between the pan and ground as ground, even if the > pan is not grounded by wire, but rather by capacitive linkage to > ground. You can see about an inch of what appears to be a power > supply lead at the bottom right of the screen. It goes under the pan. > > *Complete* documentation including a full circuit diagram and parts > info should be supplied. > > > Following is the dialog from the video: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJm9QCVJHY > > Quoted material below is from narrator on the video, assumed to be > Ron Stiffler. > > "Sometimes a good ground really makes all the difference in the > world. There's my big fat ground lead hooked to that one little > wire on that coil. Eight beautiful white LEDs." > > (Hand grabs insulated alligator clip and removes it, showing LED go > out.) > > "Let's see if I'm a good ground too." > > (Hand comes back into picture without clip, touches lead, the LED > glows dimly.) > > "I'll be dared. Not too bad, right?" > > (Repeats touch, no touch. Note little black wire at bottom right > of screen, going under pan, moving side to side a bit.) > > "Fire up eight LEDs." > > (Repeats touch, no touch.) > > "That takes a lot of power doesn't it?" > > (Lifts up breadboard with left hand to show no battery. Note what > appears to be a small black wire, going under the right half front > of the aluminum pan, shaking back and forth just prior to and after > the lifting of the board. ) > > "I still don't have that pink bunny under here either." > > (Rotates breadboard. Places board back on pan. Wire at bottom > right of screen moves side to side some more in the process. Hooks > alligator clip back to coil lead.) > > "Well, we'll put the ground back on it and be satisfied with it. > Lookn' better all the time. Maybe I'll light my house next week." > > Horace Heffner > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
