Hi Thomas, Some follow-up thoughts.
> Terry Blanton wrote: >> Particularly is the Thai > >Buddhist concept of Nirvana. > >> The individual lives but a brief life before striking >> the earth whereby the mote returns to the dust and the >> drop makes it way to the sea. >> >> Terry > Classic New Age Schick. IOW, one does not care to even try comprehending what Terry might have been trying to suggest. It's just easier to take the framiliar path and proclaim it's all "New Age Schick". - aka: "schtic" (Thank you, Terry!) > OrionWorks wrote: >> I have often noted the fact that a number of atheists I've >> known are actually deeply spiritual individuals, > Dennis Prager debated a man at the American Atheists > Conference this morning. Dr. Zeiler advanced the case > for Rational Scienticism, which he contended could be > the basis of a moral system. AFAIK, this position is > the position of most atheists. Dennis pointed out that > both Stalin and Mao were followers of RS. He continued > by mentioning their murderous accomplishments. In his > final statement, Dennis pointed out the accomplishments > of secularism; in his humble opinion, their accomplishments > in governance, culture, education, religion, philosophy, > arts, music, are crap. You appear to state that Dennis Prager believes the accomplishments of all those Rational Secularists G_dless Atheists are nothing more than, in your own words, "crap." I fear you have parsed Mr. Prager's opinions down to a level where there isn't much left to discuss. I've noticed that you seem to quote Dennis Prager a lot - over and over and OVER, again and again. I'd sure like to know what your own personal opinions might be on these fertile issues. Surely you have acquired a few of your own along the way. Let me put it in another way, I sure wish you would stop hiding behind Prager's opinions. Haven't you a few of your own that could stand on their own two legs? Personally, I'm convinced beyond a shadow of doubt that you do. FWIW, I would suggest that using Stalin or Mao as an examples of how Atheists truly behave is no more of an valid explanation than using the Ayatollah Khomeini as an example of how certain religious minded individuals behave. It is a tragic fact that people occasionally do unspeakable things to their brothers and sisters because they are behaving like ignorant, frightened, bigoted individuals. It's not because they happen to be followers of Atheism, or that they are Muslim, a Jew, or a Christian. To believe and/or claim their despicable behavior is due to their belief in Atheism, or whatever, is never going to cut to the core of the true causes of such human tragedy. For Prager to be seemingly incapable of comprehending that simple fact doesn't give me much confidence in the rest of his perceptions on the accomplishments (or lack thereof) of humanity. > I was cheering. At this point, I saw a woman storming out, > her body language said, I can't listen to anymore of this. > IMHO, it's moments like this which reassure me that there > is a just G-d. It would seem on the surface that the woman in question couldn't take anymore of the on-going debate, but then, perhaps she may have suddenly had an urgent appointment with the nearest restroom for all we really know. In any case, that's her problem and that's how she personally chose to deal with it. What I'd really like to know is why you appear to be implying that her walking out proves there is a "just G_d". A "just" god? Is she destined to be a lost lamb for the rest of her miserable life, to eventually burn in hell simply because she walked out on Prager??? >> and I mean that on a primal level. Ironically, most hard-core >> religious fundamentalists I've met (particularly those that come >> from traditional religious institutions) don't seem to comprehend >> the kind of spirituality that atheists can naturally exude from >> deep within the inner cores. > We understand it perfectly well Steven. > What you need to understand is that this system has failed > every time it's been tried. This is because it doesn't > recognize man's fallen and sinful nature. This is what I want > to tell Richard Dawkins. That and; Darwinism, and the ideas > which grow out of it like, Spontaneous Biogenesis, > Panspermia, the Gia Hypothesis are so fanciful that they > deserve to be included in an anthology of the greatest > science fiction stories of all time. Let's add the story of Genesis as well! I love all of that "knowing" & "begetting" that was going on! A real soap opera! >> Witness the crazed suicidal bomber who tries to take out as many >> innocent souls as he possibly can. > You have to realize that there are two gods in this system, > one is the G-d of Israel, and the other is Lucifer. They > have produced two quite different religious systems these > two gods. One is the Holy Torah, the other New Age. No, I don't have to reduce my realizations down to "...realize[ing] there are two gods." Yes-No & Black-White decisions. Why in G_d's name would anyone want to shoot themselves in the foot in such a reductionistic manner. In the same vein, why do you "...have to realize" that this HAS to be the absolute truth of the matter? What happens to your absolute reasoning on this matter if deep down inside somewhere inside of your soul, you begin to acquire even the slightest doubt as to it's absoluteness? What happens then? Are you a lost lamb to be thrown to the wolves? Are you destined to burn in hell for allowing your soul to entertain the audacity of doubting your own personal interpretation of a one true g_d? >> Are they really doing it for the preservation of >> their way-of-life, for the glory of Allah, or for the >> 72 virgins that had been promised them. Oh, >> > Deceiving men is so damn easy. Yah, Yah, give em what they want. Yes indeed. And what does your personal retirement package consist of? Does it come with a money back gurantee? Have you read the fine print? >> Behaving in a selfless manner becomes irrelevant simply >> because there is no "self" that needs preserving > More New Age Schick. In other words, one doesn't know what all that "New Age" mumbo-jumbo really means. All that one really knows is that they just want to go to heaven and that all their closest friends come with them as well so that we can all be together, happy and safe forever and forever. [Well, the latter part is a sweet gesture, I'd have to admit.] One final comment. It might not seem to be the case, but I really do learn a lot of things from you, Thomas. I fear it isn't reciprocal, however, and that saddens me. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.Zazzle.com/orionworks
