On Aug 6, 2009, at 7:11 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote:
From: Mr. Storms
According to David Jacob's work, the abductees run in families.
I suppose some random catch and release might happen, but this
does not seem to be the prevailing method. People who are abducted
are also caught repeatedly and re-examined. The aliens seem to be
interested in following particular genetic lines from one
generation
to the next. This is exactly how our scientists carry out genetic
research in our laboratories, so this approach is not surprising.
I suspect both Jacob and I Hopkins would concur with this
hypothesis.
It’s a plausible explanation within the context of our current
scientific paradigms.
Playing the devil’s advocate, the fact that there does seem to be an
obvious cross-generation genetic component suggests the possibility
that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing
such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such
a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to
conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with
extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in
particular DNA lineages.
Come now, Steven, I don't know about your kids, but mine are not
similar enough to have the same nonreal experiences. While similar
vivid hallucinations run in families, the occasions are very rare.
Besides, you ignore all the physical evidence that is consistent
with the claimed events.
I would appreciate a clarification on what you are referring to when
it is
stated there is consistent physical evidence. I just want to be on
the same
page with you should we continue to ponder this complex issue,
particularly
since definitions of "physical evidence" can possibly differ in both
subtle
and profound ways between individuals. Can you give some examples?
The physical evidence consists of parts of space crafts as described
by trusted observers,
objects removed from abductees as documented by doctors,
changes in soil composition and depressions at landing sites, and
physical changes in the eye as found by doctors.
Identical descriptions of craft and devices by completely independent
observers are also important.
If we were talking about a normal crime scene, the law would have no
trouble coming to a conclusion about what had happened.
I’ll say it once again for the record, my conjecture does not mean
that such experiences should be considered any less valid, certainly
not to the experiencer.
Either the allies and their claimed behavior and supposed intentions
are real, or the claims are only in the imagination, as you argue.
To me, the former is important and the latter possibility is trivial.
Granted, some people suffer from hallucinations, which are only
important to the people who have the experience and to people who
study brain function. On the other hand, the reality of alien
visitation is important to everyone.
I am surprised to see you seemingly position your conjecture on this
matter
within such a narrow spectrum, a black & white scenario of an
"either" /
"or" position.
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but quoting you-
the possibility
that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing
such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such
a hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to
conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with
extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in
particular DNA lineages.
Your comment says to me that you separate the real event of an actual
encounter with an alien from an imagined encounter. Reality is really
a black and white issue in this case. Humans are very good at
creating an image of reality in their minds. The issue is always how
close is this image to the real world. In the case of events, such as
a claim for abduction, either it happened or it was imagined. There is
nothing in between as far as I'm concerned. Also, the issue having
importance to me is not how many claims are real and how many are
imagined. If any are real, this is hugely important.
I am also under the impression that you perceive my evolving UFO
Abduction
Paradigm as being "trivial" because it seems to suggest that UFO
abductees
are simply suffering from something akin to vivid imaginations. If
that is
the case, and please correct me if I've misinterpreted your
perceptions on
this matter, I would have to say that you have either misunderstood
or you
are deliberately ignoring the underlying ramifications behind the
hypothesis. Personally, I would hardly consider the experiencer
paradigm
"trivial" by any stretch of the imagination.
What is trivial to me is an imagined abduction. I agree, if imagined
abductions were common, that fact would be interesting but not as
important as a real abduction.
FWIW, I have also never, never, EVER, argued that there may not be
extraterrestrials out there who might be interested in our DNA for
various
scientific reasons. My conjecture, my suspicion, however, is that it's
likely to be more rare than what I gather you seem to conjecturing.
OK, if we are debating the number of real vs imagined abductions, this
is a different discussion. I have no way to judge the ratio. However,
I'm only claiming that a significant number are real and the number is
sufficient to be important.
I suspect our current understanding of what is considered valid
reality
is likely to undergo radical changes within the next century or two.
I expect this is true. Of course, the UFO issue is not the only one
that is being debated these days and will result in significant
changes
in popular belief. Popular belief is usually many years behind what
is known by people who make an effort to understand reality. Why not
get a head start on this process?
Indeed. Speaking of "head starts"... As you already know, since you
brought
it to the attention of the Vort Collective not all that long ago,
let us
ponder the reality of Sai Baba. How many of us are truly ready (or
wise
enough) to manipulate reality in the manner that Sai Baba hints at?
Perhaps
for now it is best if most of us continue believing that all this
talk about
"mind over matter" is nothing more than foolish "trivial" fantasy.
CISCOP
fodder. ;-)
Good point Steven. Nevertheless, Sai Baba does open the door to an
entirely different interpretation of reality than is commonly
believed. He is not the only person who has been observed to have
some of his abilities even if we exclude Christ from the discussion .
Sai Baba is unusual in having so many abilities. Unfortunately,
religion gets involved in this issue and, as usual, completely
destroys any rational discussion.
Ed
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
