Hi Ed,
... > The physical evidence consists of parts of space crafts as > described by trusted observers, objects removed from abductees > as documented by doctors, changes in soil composition and > depressions at landing sites, and physical changes in the eye > as found by doctors. Identical descriptions of craft and devices > by completely independent observers are also important. > > If we were talking about a normal crime scene, the law would > have no trouble coming to a conclusion about what had happened. I was expecting you to be more specific. Nevertheless, I concur with the generalities of your assessment. Has it been your contention that I DON'T believe physical evidence has ever been collected? If so I'd like to squelch that assumption right now. YES, I BELIEVE PHYSICAL EVIDNECE HAS BEEN COLLECTED - COUNTLESS TIMES! Please, let us move on from this issue! My Prior Words: >>> the possibility >>> that the genes themselves are primarily responsible for allowing >>> such experiences to manifest within certain individuals. IMO, such a >>> hypothesis is just as reasonable an explanation as compared to >>> conjecturing that the experiences are generated by encounters with >>> extraterrestrial aliens whom it is alleged are interested in >>> particular DNA lineages Your response to my prior words: > Your comment says to me that you separate the real event of an > actual encounter with an alien from an imagined encounter. > Reality is really a black and white issue in this case. Humans > are very good at creating an image of reality in their minds. The > issue is always how close is this image to the real world. In > the case of events, such as a claim for abduction, either it > happened or it was imagined. There is nothing in between as far > as I'm concerned. Also, the issue having importance to me is > not how many claims are real and how many are imagined. If any > are real, this is hugely important And > What is trivial to me is an imagined abduction. I agree, if > imagined abductions were common, that fact would be interesting > but not as important as a real abduction. It seems to me that you are determining that this issue HAS to be a black & white issue, that either these UFO abductee/experiences are physically happening, or it's all just a figment of the imagination of the experiencer. Have I understood your perceptions on this matter accurately? If so, it would appear that this is the crux of where our POVs diverge dramatically. I can only offer you my perception on these matters, which obviously doesn't make it the final word, not anymore than your perception should be taken as the final word either. I can only state that my own journey through life, so far, has suggested to me that what many assume "reality" to be may not necessarily be so black & white after all. FWIW, it's been my experience that many of my early-adult troubles, much of my prior angst producing issues seemed to have revolved around desperate efforts on my part to make my perception of reality conform to such black & white paradigms, because that was what I was told reality must be. Didn't work for me. But enough of me and my psychobabble. You certainly have given me the impression that you are far less concerned about alleged UFO encounters of the so-called "imaginative" kind. Personally, I think might be missing out on a lot of interesting stuff. But to each his own. ... > OK, if we are debating the number of real vs imagined abductions, > this is a different discussion. I have no way to judge the ratio. > However, I'm only claiming that a significant number are real and > the number is sufficient to be important. Understood. Using my own words: It seems to me that one of the major cruxes of our diverging POVs on this controversial UFO abduction matter revolve around what percentage of these alleged events are happening in the traditional physical sense versus how many might be happening in what I have loosely described as an altered state-of-mind that, for me, suggests a portal into an expanded realm of realities & perceptions. At present I doubt neither you nor I have sufficient information to be able to report with confidence on how many are happening the old-fashion physical way versus my alternative explanation. I would conjecture that the recently mentioned Antonia Boas case may very well be an authentic physical UFO abduction. OTOH, I also have to state here that none of the alleged UFO abductees that I have seen, listened to and personally conversed with have given me the impression that their abductions are occurring in such a traditional/physical way as the Antonio Boas case. As I have stated before, some of the experiencers have even stated for the record that they don't believe their abduction experiences are happening in the traditional/physical sense either. They have instead stated that they believe the "aliens" transport them into a "multi-dimensional" realm. At this point it would seem that our current paradigms revolving around scientific investigation techniques appear to be woefully inadequate in pursuing such matters with much confidence. In a sense, we are dead in the waters until this smarmy issue can better addressed. Hopefully, it will in the near future. Changing the subject... A final comment about Sai Baba. Last night, after my last Vort post to you, I decided to watch a slew of you-tube videos on the Sai Baba phenomenon. I watched numerous pro and con interpretations. After watching one particular video highly critical of Sai Baba's alleged abilities I found myself pondering the notion that it was conceivable that I may have spoken from an uninformed perspective about his alleged ability to seemingly manufacture objects, like ash, out of thin air. Whatever the case, Sai Baba is far more complex than I had originally imagined! I would appreciate it if you could at some point take a moment and assess the following video, a clip obviously critical of Sai Baba's alleged paranormal abilities. Of particular interest to me was approximately 2:35 into the video where there appears to be an object in Sai Baba's hand that looks like it could be a compressed ash pill which seconds later he seems to crush between his fingers to mimic the effect of generating ashes out of thin air. To me, this portion of the video is quite intriguing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yblhsr1O4IQ There are lots of other Sai Baba you-tube videos, both pro and against his alleged claims. So, whatdaya think? Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
