Jed,
Let me rebut just a few of your statements.
Jed: "Look at the number species wiped out by humans in the last 100 years."
The number of species wiped out by one single ice age, or even a small
asteroid impact are far greater than the numbers due to man's effects.
Which is a perfect example of the point you missed to see. namely, that the
*energies at play* inside and outside this planet are far more powerful than
anything man has or will build in the near future. You are too emotionally
connected to this topic to see my point. I was specifically responding to a
point ChemEng made about using LENR to try to stabilize ocean temps. as is
clear in my statement:
"any attempts by humans to stabilize the ocean temps as ChemEng suggests,
although admirable, is probably insignificant compared to the inherent
processes happening in the planet."
I was NOT making any claims or judgments about the morality of trying, and
was not "turning a blind eye' to ANYTHING, contrary to your emotionally
charged statements! My impression is that your immediate reaction is
emotional, and that results in your missing the point the person is trying
to make. Calm down.
If you want to talk about man's effects on the planet, then one needs to
keep in mind the differences, namely, man's effects are potentially caused
by billions of small contributions, whereas the earth's contributions are
from sheer size or area, and occasional global/natural disasters. BOTH
determine the overall state/conditions, and definitively identifying and
accurately measuring ALL natural contributions has not yet been achieved;
which goes to my point about the newly discovered rift valley being a
significant contributor of the Antarctica's ice melt; at least on that side
which is seeing the most melting.
Jed: "Look at the effects of blacktopping a huge portion of North America."
You exaggerate a bit too much. 'huge portions'? I would take that to mean
at least 10%, maybe 20%.
Surface area of the earth: 510,072,000 km^2 (Wikipedia)
- land: 148,940,000 km^2 (29.2 %)
- water: 361,132,000 km^2 (70.8 %)
Surface area of US: 9,830,000 km^2
This site,
http://mb-soft.com/public3/asphalt.html
has total asphalt/concrete/asphalt roofing/etc. in the US to be 100,000
mi^2, which is 259,000 km^2.
Percentage of asphalted surface area in US (259,000/9,830,000) * 100 = 2.6%;
As a percentage of the planet's land surface: 0.17% ( land only)
As a percentage of the planet's surface area: 0.05% (land and water)
If anyone has an asphalted percentage for the entire planet, please post it.
As a percentage of the US, 2.6% might be 'huge' in your mind, but far from
it in mine. And when considering the global scheme of things, even smaller.
In addition, the US is by far the most developed nation as far as
infrastructure so it is the worst case; the vast majority of the planet's
land mass is either barren, or in undeveloped countries which have little or
no infrastructure.
Again, I wasn't "turning a blind eye" as you stated. I'd appreciate a little
more careful reading of my postings so I don't have to waste time correcting
your emotionally errored statements.
-mark iverson
From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 2:44 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Koch founded climate skeptic changes sides
MarkI-ZeroPoint <zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
If the history of natural disasters has taught us anything, it's that the
inherent powers that get unleashed over this planet make even the most
powerful human inventions look like a pitiful whimper.
That is the wrong lesson. It is a false lesson. Look at the number species
wiped out by humans in the last 100 years. Look at the amount of topsoil
washed down the Mississippi. Look at the effects of blacktopping a huge
portion of North America. Look at invasive plants such as kudzu in the U.S.
south. Heck, look at a Google map of any portion of the East Coast of the
U.S. and the changes cities and towns have made on the landscape. People are
making tremendous changes to the earth. Nearly all the changes are
deleterious, and some are unprecedented disasters.
People are causing tremendous effects on the earth, such the desertification
in Asia and Africa. This is far worse than volcanic action or hurricanes.
I think that nearly all of these problems can be fixed, or ameliorated. The
effects can be reversed; the earth can be restored. This will add
tremendously to everyone's quality of life. But we cannot do anything unless
we first acknowledge there is a problem, and we start looking for solutions.
Saying that "nature is worse" or claiming that we are not having an effect
will lead to unthinkable disasters.
That is the history you want to re-run. That is what happens when you turn a
blind eye to global warming and pollution, and you say it does not matter if
people in Bangladesh suffer.
- Jed
