This should have been tagged OT from the beginning. However, changing
a subject header after it has started screws up threading, and the
whole point of my responding at all to Jojo is to keep sane
information in his threads, for future readers who find this through
Google. I would never inititate this discussion here.
At 05:21 PM 1/2/2013, you wrote:
Lomax, please read up on the case of the Nordyke twins. They were
born within a few days of Obama and they were able to obtain a long
form copy of their BC. You lie once again by claiming that there is
no legal way.
I read all this months ago. Joho seems to not realize something. I
actually research what I write, when it enters controversy. I check my facts.
Quite obviously there is, cause the Nordyke twins were able to
do it. Please my friend, stop the lies. Where is Obama's long
form BC. Not computer generated scans which are obviously fake.
Have you seen the Nordyke twin's long form BC? When was it issued?
If you haven't seen it, look at:
http://www.biasedmediaboycott.com/index.php?topic=80.0
Just the first I could find.
The Nordyke certificate was issued in 1966, you can see the date.
It's a negative copy, and I received copies like that of birth
records -- my own, for example --, it's how it used to be done, the
copying machines made a negative. So Ms. Nordyke requested a birth
certificate copy in 1966, and that is what she got. A copy of the
original, the "long form." If you look carefully at the picture, you
can see the lines starting to bend from where the original is bound
in a volume, as you can see this same bending in the long form image
that has been issued by Obama.
(Looking at some of the birther pages, the arguments they come up
with are a *scream!*) Referring to the
Hawai'i later computerized their records, and started to issue
short-form certificates, with only the legally important data.
Apparently getting a long form requires special permission, and it's
not clear that it's automatic that you can get one at all. And *who*
can get one? Can I write to Hawai'i and get a copy of, say, that
Nordyke BC? Or Obama's, and will they be treated *any differently*?
(Answer: to do this I'd have to commit a crime, I'd have to
impersonate them. Or be representing them, and be able to show that.
However, people to obtain birth certificates under false pretenses.
For a $10 fee, they obviously can't do a lot of investigation! On the
other hand, if they get a letter from "Barack Obama, P.O. Box blah
blah, Philippines," do you think they'd fall for it?
Now, what Jojo had actually demanded was to see the "vault copy"
itself, not some copy on the internet. Well, did he see the Nordyke
twins BC? Or just a copy on the internet?
Now, some people may have visited Ms. Nordyke and may have seen the
certified copy. And some people have seen certified copies of Obama's
short form and the "vault certificate," the "long form." The page I
pointed to made a big fuss about how different the long form was from
Obama's short form. Much ado about *nothing*. They are quite
distinct, obviously, but the short form includes all the legally
important data, and is how Hawai'i stopped handling the vault copies.
The entered the important data into a computer, and they print copies
out by computer. My guess is that it's a secure computer system, not
connected to a network, and that the clerk issuing a BC doesn't
actually look at the vault copy. But that's a guess.
It is difficult to believe that Jojo is unaware of these arguments,
unless he's really new to the field and just has a habit of asserting
what he *just learned* as certain fact. He *has* done that, at least
once, because he acknowledged just having read it.
So what is it that Jojo is demanding, he who does not even live in
the U.S.? Does he want a courier to arrive with the bound volume?
Does he want a copy mailed to him with the certification? He has to
be eligible to recieve one, and there is a $10 fee if he's eligible.
The State of Hawai'i does not issue the original to *anyone*. It's
called a "vault copy" because that's where it's kept! And it doesn't
issue certified copies except to eligible persons. Read the
application information:
http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html
Jojo has demanded to know who has seen the original long form. I gave
him a list by position or circumstance. He demanded the names. All of
this could be found in a few minutes on the internet. I gave the
names of two Hawai'ian officials who had certified that they had seen
the original. Jojo then simply claims I'm lying. But all this can
quickly and easily be verified. I found more, since I wrote that. It
appears that state Secretaries of State, having a legal need for
birth information, can request it from Hawai'i. Hawai'i does not send
them the certificate, it sends, instead, a letter under official seal
and signed as a testimony certifying as to the *information*
contained in the certificate. And those have been signed by other
officials. There is actually quite a list.
And Jojo has them all be lying. What a world he lives in!
Jojo has demanded that the vault copy be shown to someone "trusted,"
and he named Tea Party officials, and Ron Paul. Ron Paul has openly
and clearly rejected the birther claims, in quite the same way as I
might. "Not as far as I know." And, when questioned, he made it clear
that it was his business to know if there was something to it. Could
Ron Paul see a copy if he asked Obama nicely? My guess is that he
could. But I'm not sure. The issue for Obama would be if it was worth
the effort. It may not be. There is *zero legal necessity* for him to
do it. He already bent over backwards to handle this. He sent his
personal attorney to pick up the certified copies of the long form.
What did that cost?
