Why would muslims consider the truth about their prophet to be an insult.
Muslim scholars acknowledge this truth and yet somehow, I am considered a liar
with disinformation because I mention these things. How can truth be
considered propaganda? By definition, propaganda is a lie. The truth may be
insulting to muslims but it is hardly propaganda.
Now calling the Bible a made up fiction - that's a lie, an insult, and
propaganda. And I have suffered insults like that long long long before I even
started mentioning these things about islam.
Jojo
----- Original Message -----
From: de Bivort Lawrence
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 1:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: The Truth about islam and anti-Islamic propaganda
Hi, Dave,
Yes, this is the problem that plagues those harmed by mis- or disinformation.
If one ignores it, there will be a substantial number of people who believe it
on the grounds that it was not refuted. If one does not ignore the
disinformation and instead refutes it, by, of necessity, repeating the
misinformation along with its counter, then the misinformation is more widely
propagated.
It is an age-old conundrum and one that has not been resolved yet by
humankind.
Balance is always nice, except when it is a compromise between truth and
deception. There are ill-intentioned people out there who will deliberately
use disinformation to harm others. Remember Neville Chamberlain? He naively
sought compromise where none was desirable.
So the conundrum continues. Maybe someday we'll figure out a way to solve it.
Until then, those who propagate disinformation will always gain some advantage
in conning people, whether refuted or not. Generally -- and I've been studying
patterns of propaganda for several decades -- I find that refutation is best,
with the intention of damaging the credibility of the source of disinformation.
Of course, in this digital age, the source when discredited simply creates a
new avatar is is again off to the races.
Do you remember the boardwalk game "whack-a-mole" or somesuch? It seems o me
an apt metaphor <grin>.
Cheers,
Lawry
On Jan 3, 2013, at 11:49 AM, David Roberson wrote:
Perhaps there is a problem with the spread of disinformation that you speak
of, but did you consider that every time a response is generated, it just gives
the subject more publicity? I have come to the conclusion that this is one of
the problems within the US that leads to more violence being propagated. One
awful act is repeated within the news for far too long which tends to make
individuals that are seeking fame to act irrationally. It would have been
better for nothing to have been said at any time about the event on public
news. Unfortunately, politics usually becomes involved in such manners where
there is a tendency to keep the issue alive far beyond reason. Those that
continue the process should be held accountable for further problems akin to
yelling fire in a crowded environment.
Someone looking for an issue to set off their passions is not going to
worry about any counters. They most likely will not balance what they read,
but instead concentrate upon a narrow range of inputs that they find
particularly offensive. This seems to be the nature of the beast, so it is in
the best interest of all concerned to terminate the discussion at once and not
keep repeating and consequently spreading the issue.
For balance, you should also be concerned about the extreme negativity
given to one of the Christian positions during the exchanges. I know that
there are people reading the list that hold these types of views in serious
contempt. This group in not the proper forum from which to conduct these types
of activities and I plead that they be terminated.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: de Bivort Lawrence <ldebiv...@gmail.com>
To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Sent: Thu, Jan 3, 2013 10:53 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: The Truth about islam and little girls.
Hi, Eric,
My motive for posting in Jojo's trolling is not quite the same as Abd
ul-Rahman's. I worry about the campaign of disinformation that Islamo-phobes
are spreading as widely as they can. It affects the ability of the American
people and Europeans to understand issues pertaining to the Middle East, and so
degrades the quality of our foreign policy. I know, not the concern of LENR
list. But people on this list nonetheless and fortunately form opinions on
other matters, and so the disinformation must (I say as a political scientist
involved in US foreign policy issues, as well as an engaged LENR observer) be
countered. And yes, I know that the disinformation is unfair to list members
and the countering of it tedious, repetitious, and, to many, legitimately
unwelcome.
Hidden Islamophobic agendas and methods have spilled into our list. The
matter that Abd ul-Rahman raises of the troll's posting being archived is a
real one, even if we have had to waste time countering it. Short of stopping
the Islamophobic trolling at its source, I don't know what else to do.
Islamophobia is akin to anti-Semitism in its despicability, and one can make
the argument easily that the former is a variant of the latter. We should
accept neither.
Lawry
On Jan 2, 2013, at 11:22 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
<a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote:
Oh, I'm quivering, shaking with the possibility that *Jed Rothwell*
might filter me out.
I am not going to subscribe to VortexB-l. This is supposedy a moderated
list. If it stays unmoderated, I won't be here long.
Hate to say it, but the troll is starting to win. People are starting to
lose patience with one another. I think Steve Johnson has been on this list
since early days.
Any word on Bill? Is he ok?
How long do we suffer the present situation until we reconstitute under
something like Google Groups, with Terry or another longtimer as mod? Or should
everyone who can't stand the situation add he who shall not be named to a
killfile? If that's the best we can do for now, how to address Abd's pressing
concern about having his background and religion subject to constant assault on
this list?
Eric
