Here it is in full. I can not interpret what it is saying! Many thanks Severin
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000140004000 VM Regions Near 0x140004000: MALLOC_TINY 0000000119700000-0000000119800000 [ 1024K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV --> CG shared images 00000001c0003000-00000001c000b000 [ 32K] r--/r-- SM=SHM Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread 0 ??? 0x0000000140004000 0 + 5368725504 1 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x0000000101948c4e AWS_CUI_GetVersionComments(OpaqueWindowPtr*, adobe::q::QDocument&, adobe::q::QString&, adobe::q::QAttributeList&, adobe::q::QDocument*, adobe::q::QProject*, long) + 17771246 2 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x0000000100bbab07 AWS_CUI_GetVersionComments(OpaqueWindowPtr*, adobe::q::QDocument&, adobe::q::QString&, adobe::q::QAttributeList&, adobe::q::QDocument*, adobe::q::QProject*, long) + 3557799 3 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x0000000100c51f73 AWS_CUI_GetVersionComments(OpaqueWindowPtr*, adobe::q::QDocument&, adobe::q::QString&, adobe::q::QAttributeList&, adobe::q::QDocument*, adobe::q::QProject*, long) + 4177427 4 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x00000001007b045b boost::system::system_error::what() const + 1998427 5 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x00000001007b0999 boost::system::system_error::what() const + 1999769 6 com.adobe.Photoshop 0x000000010054b24c 0x100000000 + 5550668 On 15/08/2012, at 6:25 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: > Hi Severin, > > I'm knocking off from WAMUG support now, I have other work to do. > I'm expecting you to find something similar to this: > > Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) > Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000140004000 > Crashed Thread: 0 > > > Thread 0 Crashed: > 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x00007fff805b7730 strlen + 16 > 1 ...ple.ApplicationServices.ATS 0x00007fff83b20536 > _eATSSendFontQuery + 430 > 2 ...ple.ApplicationServices.ATS 0x00007fff83ad7c83 > _eATSFontFindFromPostScriptName + 847 > 3 ...ple.ApplicationServices.ATS 0x00007fff83ad7919 > ATSFontFindFromPostScriptName + 67 > 4 com.apple.CoreText 0x00007fff847a079c > TDescriptorSourceImp::CopyFontDescriptorPerPostscriptName(__CFString const*, > unsigned int) const + 416 > > Cheers, > Ronni > > > On 15/08/2012, at 5:35 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: > >> EXC_BAD_ACCESS is a very typical reason and it simply means that the >> application tried to access an object which wasn't there anymore (common >> memory management error). >> >> Each application has more than one thread and we want to find the thread >> that crashed, so look out for "Thread x Crashed": >> >> On 15/08/2012, at 5:26 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >> >>> Nothing that I can recognise. Here is the key bit - I think! >>> >>> Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV) >>> Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x0000000140004000 >>> >>> Severin >>> >>> On 15/08/2012, at 5:20 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Severin, >>>> >>>> That it runs in Safe Mode and will NOT run in Normal mode, indicates to me >>>> that you must have an extension/plugin of something in your user account >>>> that is stopping PS CS6 from running in normal mode. >>>> >>>> Have you looked in Console.app at CS6 logs or crash log to see if anything >>>> gives you a clue as to what is stopping the launch of CS6? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ronni >>>> >>>> On 15/08/2012, at 4:55 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Ronni, well Photoshop CS6 is in residence again and so are the >>>>> droplets, well sort of! >>>>> Following your last email I >>>>> 1. Uninstalled Photoshop using its own uninstaller rather than CleanMyMac >>>>> 2. Copied the PS CS6 DVD contents to the desktop >>>>> 3. Rebooted in safe mode >>>>> 4. Successfully ran the Photoshop CS6 installer >>>>> 5. Successfully started Photoshop >>>>> 7. Went to check for updates >>>>> 8. Downloaded and installed updates >>>>> 9. Restarted Photoshop >>>>> 10. Created an Action >>>>> 11. Created a Droplet from the action >>>>> 12. Successfully ran the Droplet >>>>> 13. Did a normal reboot >>>>> 14. Photoshop will no longer open, hangs at Initialise >>>>> 15. Did a safe reboot >>>>> 16. Photoshop now behaving normally again >>>>> 17. Opened all the applications that normally run >>>>> 18. Photoshop still OK >>>>> 19. Normal reboot >>>>> 20. Photoshop again will not start >>>>> >>>>> From the fact that a clone made on Thursday 9 August runs Photoshop in >>>>> normal boot I conclude that something after 9 August is to blame. I >>>>> have preserved the clone. I am at a loss as to how to proceed. I have >>>>> no clear recollection or record of what happened in those few days, my >>>>> policy is always to install updates when notified by MacUpdate ( but no >>>>> beta versions!). I have no memory of "trying out" anything and if I did >>>>> I would have deleted it with CleanMyMac. >>>>> >>>>> Severin Crisp >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 14/08/2012, at 5:15 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Severin, >>>>>> >>>>>> Comments in situ below. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 14/08/2012, at 4:42 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Ronni, after a break here is an update on my ongoing issue. I did as >>>>>>> you suggested and reset Home Directory Permissions and this has stopped >>>>>>> the untoward Finder requests for authorisation. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good to hear. >>>>>> >>>>>>> The Photoshop issue remains unresolved. My current situation is that >>>>>>> Photoshop CS6 will not start, either from my account or from a new user >>>>>>> account. This situation developed AFTER I did a boot in safe mode and >>>>>>> found that Photoshop opened. Now it does not start in any account or >>>>>>> in safe mode, something has been broken. >>>>>> >>>>>> Booting into Safe Mode would not break anything. Safe Boot-Mode disables >>>>>> all unnecessary extensions. >>>>>> You then Reboot your Mac normally and it re-enables the system >>>>>> extensions. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have uninstalled PhotoShop (Clean my Mac) and reinstalled, no joy. I >>>>>>> have a clone created just prior to finding this out from the failing >>>>>>> droplets and Photoshop there opens fine, though the droplets do not >>>>>>> work. Forget the droplets for the moment, I want PhotoShop back again! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When opening Photoshop the window progresses to Initialising then >>>>>>> quits. An Adobe message offers to look at the report and comes back >>>>>>> saying it can not offer a solution. All my other applications seem >>>>>>> unaffected. I have knocked out all my Login items but still no >>>>>>> Photoshop startup. I have zapped PRAM, I have run Disk Warrior, I have >>>>>>> repaired permissions, I have sworn, I have torn my hair. >>>>>>> What might I try next? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hmmm, not being a fan of Adobe products, about all I can suggest to try >>>>>> is this: >>>>>> Did you quit all other applications, even non-Adobe, before you >>>>>> attempted the install? Not doing so can cause problems. >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) ShutDown you Mac >>>>>> 2) Boot the Mac while holding down the shift key until the Login Window >>>>>> appears >>>>>> 3) Login and open the CS6 Disk Image >>>>>> 4) Copy the contents of the disk image (Blue PS Icon) to the desktop >>>>>> 5) Launch the installer from the desktop NOT the Disk Image >>>>>> Install >>>>>> 7) Reboot the Mac normally (without the Shift key) to re-enable the >>>>>> system extensions >>>>>> >>>>>> The above installation information comes from the Adobe Support Site. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Ronni >>>>>> >>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13/08/2012, at 9:35 AM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, Ronni. I have to go out for the morning, will try this >>>>>>>> afternoon. >>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>> On 13/08/2012, at 7:51 AM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Severin, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You mentioned: >>>>>>>>>> Ronni, further information. The Droplets work when I boot in Safe >>>>>>>>>> mode. >>>>>>>>>> However Finder still asks for password when I put anything in the >>>>>>>>>> Trash. Not >>>>>>>>>> so from the alternative user account (when not in Safe mode). >>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>> There are certain places where you must authenticate, but your >>>>>>>>> Desktop isn't one of them (unless you are moving it from a folder >>>>>>>>> that denies deleting things). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would suggest you reset the Home Directory Permissions and ACLs. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Resetting the home folder permissions with the Reset Password utility >>>>>>>>> will reset both the owner and the permissions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. Restart your Mac holding ⌘+R to boot into Lion Recovery, which >>>>>>>>> will bring you to the Repair Utilities screen. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. Open Terminal from the Utilities menu. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. In Terminal, enter resetpassword and hit return key to open the >>>>>>>>> Reset Password utility. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 4. Choose your hard drive icon at the top, then choose your user >>>>>>>>> from the drop-down menu below. >>>>>>>>> DO NOT RESET the password here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 5. At the bottom of the window, under "Reset Home Directory >>>>>>>>> Permissions and ACLs", click the "Reset" button. >>>>>>>>> This may take awhile if you have a lot of files in your home folder. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This should solve your permissions problems for most apps. However, >>>>>>>>> it's possible you may have a few apps which had saved files with >>>>>>>>> special permissions that are different from the user's default >>>>>>>>> permissions (like preferences or application support files). >>>>>>>>> For those apps, you may need to delete their preferences or reinstall >>>>>>>>> the app. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2012, at 11:05 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, those are the current permissions >>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2012, at 5:39 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Severin, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just a quick reply as I need to do more clients work for tomorrow. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mountain Lion does ask for authorisation and for you to >>>>>>>>>>> authenticate if you are moving or deleting any that is system >>>>>>>>>>> related. >>>>>>>>>>> I've noticed it does this more than in Lion. >>>>>>>>>>> You might have some permissions problems, but first check what >>>>>>>>>>> Permissions you have on your Hard Drive and your User Home Folder? >>>>>>>>>>> HD - system "Read & Write" >>>>>>>>>>> wheel "Read only >>>>>>>>>>> everyone "Read only >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> User Home Folder - sev (me) "Read & Write >>>>>>>>>>> staff "Read only" >>>>>>>>>>> everyone "read only" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/08/2012, at 2:06 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ronni, yes, Droplets work fine in a fresh account. Interestingly, >>>>>>>>>>>> I note that I am in general getting requests from Finder for >>>>>>>>>>>> authorisation when moving files or just trashing them. Seems to >>>>>>>>>>>> happen when nothing is locked and read and write is enabled for >>>>>>>>>>>> everything in sight. I suspect that this may be the trouble, the >>>>>>>>>>>> droplet writes to an existing folder, but where does it come from? >>>>>>>>>>>> I can find no setting that is relevant. >>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 5:03 PM, Severin Crisp <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, I have still to try that >>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 4:52 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, the first thing I did when trouble arose was to recreate >>>>>>>>>>>>>> them. They worked previously in Lion too. As I noted earlier, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Action (script) runs fine when you use it in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> File/Automate/ Batch mode but fails when that script is made >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a Droplet(Applet). On dragging and dropping a file to it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the dock it gives it gives one half hearted bounce then >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing. Normally it would open Photoshop and carry on. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure Adobe will come out with fix in due course, clearly there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is something in Mountain Lion that jars with Create Droplet >>>>>>>>>>>>>> function, or rather running that droplet. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 4:39 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Severin, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So Droplets - File > Get Info shows Kind: Application (32-bit) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These droplets were not originally created in CS6, is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have tried in a new User Account (as Daniel suggested); do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your existing droplets work fine in the new user account? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have now re-created them in CS6 but they are still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicating they have been created in 32-bit? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you also try (as Daniel suggested) System Preferences > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Security & Privacy - General and 'Allow applications downloaded >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from:' and changing it to 'Anywhere' to see if that makes a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference to the droplets? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Ronni's iPad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 4:07 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the first statement at the beginning of Get Info for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the droplet. Droplets are drag and drop applications that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> create within Photoshop from Actions, which are essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scripts. The Droplet looks like an application in the Finder >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 3:08 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, how did you see that Droplets is 32-bit mode as you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned previously? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Photoshop CS6 is only 64 bit application on Mac OS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Windows, it is a 32 and 64 bit application. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 3:01 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no checkbox as in other applications. It just says >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kind: Application (32 bit)" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 1:25 PM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you Uncheck 32-bit it will run in 64-bit mode. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Ronni's iPad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 12:40 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 64 bit option is not available in the Get Info window. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Photoshop CS6 is right up to date according to Adobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Updater and of course I have tried recompiling the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> droplets. HMMMM!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Enjoy the sunshine, a wonderful 22C here for lunch outside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/08/2012, at 7:47 AM, Ronda Brown <ro...@mac.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Change it to run in 64bit Mode in the Get Info window. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ronni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Ronni's iPad >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012, at 10:35 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have just noticed that the Droplets are 32bit. Could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that be the trouble? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012, at 5:46 PM, Daniel Kerr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dan...@macwizardry.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do they give an error message when tried to be used? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It could be they're treated as "little applications" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that don't pass Gatekeeper. You could try System >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Preferences -Security and "allow all" (applications) to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see if it lets you use them then. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (sorry not very clear instructions as not near computer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise possibly another type of coding difference. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thats one quick thought worth a try. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Will think more later when free if that doesn't help :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone 4s >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Kerr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MacWizardry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: 0414 795 960 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Email: <daniel AT macwizardry.com.au> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ** For Everything Apple ** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/08/2012, at 5:40 PM, Severin Crisp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sevcr...@westnet.com.au> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find that my Photoshop CS6 droplets do not work in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mountain Lion, were fine in Lion. I see this is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recognised problem with no very clear solution yet. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find that the same Actions on which I base my failing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Droplets (File/Automate/Create Droplet…) in fact >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perform correctly under File/Automate/Batch… >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Strange, the action and dialogs seem vitally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> identical. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone a comment to offer? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Severin Crisp > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> ________________________________________________________ Assoc Professor R Severin Crisp, FIP, CPhys, FAIP 15 Thomas St, Mount Clarence, Albany, 6330, Western Australia. 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