I don't understand why you can't make an item for each character or each person in a band. As long as you have a valid reference (IMDb? Book? out of my league here) you can make an item for anything
On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jan Dudík <jan.du...@gmail.com> wrote: > There is one big field, where redirects make sense: lists (of > characters) or members of bands > > *Rob Bourdon (Q19205) have article in 38 languages. There is also part > of article de:Linkin_Park, which is about him and [[de:Rob Bourdon]] > is redirect. > *Character X from tv series Y is not notable enough to have separate > article, but it should have own item on wikidata. And there is article > about him in some small wiki. When you search , you found that there > is one article, but fifteen redirects to section (List of Y > characters#X) > *Fred Weasley (Q13359612) have one sitelink (to redirect), but > informations are in en, cs, fr, es, it, pt, pl, da and others too. But > when I want to find relevant articles, I must try each language > separate. With alowed redirects, I find it. > > JAnD > > 2014-10-16 11:06 GMT+02:00 Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>: > > With a view to supporting mobile, why bundle concepts needlessly into > large > > articles? Why not split them out and use the typical Wikipedia blue link > > methodology to link them together? Some of the English Wikipedia articles > > are very unwieldy on mobile and you need to scroll through lots of stuff > to > > get the information you are looking for. In the case you are describing > > however, I find the article rather short and I can't even see any > reference > > to the occupation of hatmaker at all unless you are referring to a list > of > > notable hatters and milliners (which also seems rather short). > > > > On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:40 AM, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote: > >> > >> We have the relevant information on :en in "hatmaking". > >> > >> Why create a stub? Why require the duplication? > >> > >> Surely it is for client wikis to decide how they want to treat topics, > >> either in a big omnibus article, or in a lot of little articles -- that > is a > >> decision for them. > >> > >> But we should be helping readers moving from one language to another to > >> find the nearest equivalent in that language -- no matter whether in > that > >> language it is a small part of a large article, or a separate article > in its > >> own right. > >> > >> -- James. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 16/10/2014 09:29, Jane Darnell wrote: > >>> > >>> James, > >>> I totally agree with Gerard and I totally disagree with you. The fact > >>> that > >>> the English Wikipedia does not have an article on "hatmaker" is not > >>> something that Wikidata should support, and the energy you are wasting > >>> with > >>> your talk about redirects could better be spent on making a stub for > >>> "hatmaker" on the English wikipedia. > >>> Jane > >>> > >>> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 9:34 AM, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what > I > >>>> am > >>>> saying. > >>>> > >>>> To be clearer: > >>>> > >>>> * Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink* > >>>> not > >>>> the item. > >>>> * It is no more "Wikipedia centric" than noting that a link goes to a > >>>> featured article in some language, or any other badge. > >>>> > >>>> I'm not proposing items be introduced for "new things that do not > exist" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Let's take an example, from Project Chat recently. > >>>> > >>>> * "Hatmaking" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article > >>>> on > >>>> it in English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatmaking > >>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q663375 > >>>> > >>>> * "Hatmaker" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article > >>>> on it on lots of Wikipedias. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q18199649 > >>>> > >>>> The two concepts are not the same. One is a skill, the other is an > >>>> occupation. They have a P425 / P na relationship. > >>>> > >>>> It therefore would not make any sense to add "Hatmaking" as a label to > >>>> the > >>>> "Hatmaker" item. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to :en: defined for "Hatmaker". > >>>> > >>>> What would make sense would be to sitelink to the redirect page > >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hatmaker&redirect=no > >>>> with a badge, noting that this was a sitelink to a redirect page. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to wikis other than :en: defined > for > >>>> "Hatmaking" > >>>> > >>>> What would make sense would be to create redirects on these wikis, > >>>> linking > >>>> to their articles on "Hatmaker", and then add sitelinks to the > >>>> "Hatmaking" > >>>> item, pointing to these redirects in each of the languages. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To give another example: > >>>> > >>>> On Commons, we have a creator page for the engraver Daniel Havell, > >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Creator:Daniel_Havell > >>>> which ought to be made to draw from a Wikidata item for the engraver. > >>>> (cf https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Creator/wrapper/test for > >>>> tests) > >>>> > >>>> On en-wiki, there is no separate article for Daniel Havell. Instead > >>>> there > >>>> is a redirect, > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Daniel_Havell&; > >>>> redirect=no, which points to a section of an article on the Havell > >>>> family: > >>>> > https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Havell_family#Daniel_Havell > >>>> > >>>> Wikidata should have an item on Daniel Havell, which points to this > >>>> redirect. > >>>> > >>>> That way, when the Creator template on Commons wants a link target on > >>>> :enwiki, the Wikidata item can supply it. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> As I said, Gerard, I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. > >>>> > >>>> I hope it is clearer and makes more sense to you now. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> All best, > >>>> > >>>> James. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 16/10/2014 06:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hoi, > >>>>> I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is > a > >>>>> good > >>>>> thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly > Wikipedia > >>>>> centric and they introduce new things that do not exist. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> - a redirect page to three pages is also called an > disambiguation > >>>>> page.. > >>>>> We do support them. They are not redirects. > >>>>> - when a redirect page refers to an article by another name, it > >>>>> only > >>>>> takes a label to add the needed link to the subject > >>>>> > >>>>> Seriously WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS? > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> GerardM > >>>>> > >>>>> On 14 October 2014 23:22, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Creating sitelinks to redirects: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As I understand it, the classic workaround for this is to > >>>>>> * go to client wiki, > >>>>>> * edit the page temporarily so that it is not a redirect > >>>>>> * add a sitelink > >>>>>> * edit the page again to turn it back into a redirect. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thus, at least as I understand it, there is no overwhelming > technical > >>>>>> barrier to creating a sitelink to a redirect. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Looking back through the archives of Project Chat, it seems to be a > >>>>>> perennial thing that we ought to permit sitelinks to redirects, eg > >>>>>> most > >>>>>> recently at > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Should_ > >>>>>> all_occupations_be_separate_items_from_their_skills.3F > >>>>>> > >>>>>> which led to Kaldari filing Bugzilla: 71859 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But I'm not quite sure exactly what he wants solved, if sitelinks to > >>>>>> redirects are /already/ possible. (Albeit requiring the slightly > >>>>>> roundabout process above). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Perhaps what is needed is just a concerted RfC, to confirm once and > >>>>>> for > >>>>>> all that it is indeed the community view that such sitelinks are > >>>>>> useful, > >>>>>> and should be created. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> But there are a couple of things it would be nice to have, to > confirm > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> practice: > >>>>>> * A badge (eg the letter R on a red disc) to indicate that the > >>>>>> sitelink > >>>>>> to language xx is linking to a redirect, not a primary article. > >>>>>> * On an item, a new property "redirected to", taking another item > as > >>>>>> its > >>>>>> object, and the identity of the wiki as a qualifier. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> After that, we should go out creating this redirects on client wikis > >>>>>> en > >>>>>> masse, and site-linking them. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> This would solve a huge number of issues we currently have, where > wiki > >>>>>> A > >>>>>> has lots of little articles, whereas wiki B has the same content all > >>>>>> in > >>>>>> sections of one article; or where wiki A and wiki B have chosen > >>>>>> different > >>>>>> primary items for their treatment of a field. (For example: the > >>>>>> profession > >>>>>> 'hatmaker' or the activity 'hatmaking'). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Allowing and encouraging sitelinks to redirect is the key to > keeping a > >>>>>> clean item structure on Wikidata, while still connecting readers to > >>>>>> the > >>>>>> most relevant pages in their preferred alternative languages. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- James. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On 14/10/2014 21:00, Jane Darnell wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> nope > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Smolenski Nikola < > smole...@eunet.rs> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Citiranje Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2) There is no way of making an interwikilink for a redirect, > and > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> German Wikipedia's "afrikanische Pflaume" is currently a redirect > >>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>> "Prunus" > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> You should still be able to make an interwiki link for a redirect > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> old > >>>>>>>> way, > >>>>>>>> are you not? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikidata-l mailing list > >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikidata-l mailing list > > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >
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