Hoi,
I want to have any and all sitelinks to any and all projects that are not
an article deleted. Wikidata points to articles.
Thanks,
GerardM
On 17 October 2014 14:00, Joe Filceolaire <filceola...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gerard
>
> Do you want to delete sitelinks to wikipedia redirects or wikidata items
> which redirect to other items?
>
> Joe
> On 17 Oct 2014 06:27, "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> If there is something like a hatmaker, it can have an item even when
>> there is no article in the English Wikipedia about it.
>>
>> When Mr Daniel Havell has no article, it still can have an item. It is
>> up to any Wikipedia to have an article about him or not.
>>
>> It does not mean that redirects are a good thing. Or that we should allow
>> for redirects in Wikidata in the first place. Any project decides what it
>> has articles for and what not. With urgency all the redirects that exist
>> should be deleted.
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>>
>> On 16 October 2014 09:34, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I am sorry, Gerard, you seem to have fundamentally misunderstood what I
>>> am saying.
>>>
>>> To be clearer:
>>>
>>> * Noting that a link goes to a redirect is a feature of the *sitelink*
>>> not the item.
>>> * It is no more "Wikipedia centric" than noting that a link goes to a
>>> featured article in some language, or any other badge.
>>>
>>> I'm not proposing items be introduced for "new things that do not exist"
>>>
>>>
>>> Let's take an example, from Project Chat recently.
>>>
>>> * "Hatmaking" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article
>>> on it in English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatmaking
>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q663375
>>>
>>> * "Hatmaker" is a real-world concept that exists. We have an article
>>> on it on lots of Wikipedias. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q18199649
>>>
>>> The two concepts are not the same. One is a skill, the other is an
>>> occupation. They have a P425 / P na relationship.
>>>
>>> It therefore would not make any sense to add "Hatmaking" as a label to
>>> the "Hatmaker" item.
>>>
>>>
>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to :en: defined for "Hatmaker".
>>>
>>> What would make sense would be to sitelink to the redirect page
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hatmaker&redirect=no
>>> with a badge, noting that this was a sitelink to a redirect page.
>>>
>>>
>>> At the moment, there is no sitelink to wikis other than :en: defined for
>>> "Hatmaking"
>>>
>>> What would make sense would be to create redirects on these wikis,
>>> linking to their articles on "Hatmaker", and then add sitelinks to the
>>> "Hatmaking" item, pointing to these redirects in each of the languages.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To give another example:
>>>
>>> On Commons, we have a creator page for the engraver Daniel Havell,
>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Creator:Daniel_Havell
>>> which ought to be made to draw from a Wikidata item for the engraver.
>>> (cf https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Template:Creator/wrapper/test for
>>> tests)
>>>
>>> On en-wiki, there is no separate article for Daniel Havell. Instead
>>> there is a redirect, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/
>>> index.php?title=Daniel_Havell&redirect=no, which points to a section of
>>> an article on the Havell family:
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Havell_family#Daniel_Havell
>>>
>>> Wikidata should have an item on Daniel Havell, which points to this
>>> redirect.
>>>
>>> That way, when the Creator template on Commons wants a link target on
>>> :enwiki, the Wikidata item can supply it.
>>>
>>>
>>> As I said, Gerard, I think you misunderstood what I was talking about.
>>>
>>> I hope it is clearer and makes more sense to you now.
>>>
>>>
>>> All best,
>>>
>>> James.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16/10/2014 06:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hoi,
>>>> I seriously fail to see how an example how Wikidata can be abused is a
>>>> good
>>>> thing. Redirects are imho seriously stupid. They are utterly Wikipedia
>>>> centric and they introduce new things that do not exist.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - a redirect page to three pages is also called an disambiguation
>>>> page..
>>>> We do support them. They are not redirects.
>>>> - when a redirect page refers to an article by another name, it only
>>>> takes a label to add the needed link to the subject
>>>>
>>>> Seriously WHY ARE WE EVEN TALKING ABOUT THIS?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> GerardM
>>>>
>>>> On 14 October 2014 23:22, James Heald <j.he...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Creating sitelinks to redirects:
>>>>>
>>>>> As I understand it, the classic workaround for this is to
>>>>> * go to client wiki,
>>>>> * edit the page temporarily so that it is not a redirect
>>>>> * add a sitelink
>>>>> * edit the page again to turn it back into a redirect.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, at least as I understand it, there is no overwhelming technical
>>>>> barrier to creating a sitelink to a redirect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking back through the archives of Project Chat, it seems to be a
>>>>> perennial thing that we ought to permit sitelinks to redirects, eg most
>>>>> recently at
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Should_
>>>>> all_occupations_be_separate_items_from_their_skills.3F
>>>>>
>>>>> which led to Kaldari filing Bugzilla: 71859
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But I'm not quite sure exactly what he wants solved, if sitelinks to
>>>>> redirects are /already/ possible. (Albeit requiring the slightly
>>>>> roundabout process above).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps what is needed is just a concerted RfC, to confirm once and for
>>>>> all that it is indeed the community view that such sitelinks are
>>>>> useful,
>>>>> and should be created.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But there are a couple of things it would be nice to have, to confirm
>>>>> the
>>>>> practice:
>>>>> * A badge (eg the letter R on a red disc) to indicate that the
>>>>> sitelink
>>>>> to language xx is linking to a redirect, not a primary article.
>>>>> * On an item, a new property "redirected to", taking another item as
>>>>> its
>>>>> object, and the identity of the wiki as a qualifier.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> After that, we should go out creating this redirects on client wikis en
>>>>> masse, and site-linking them.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would solve a huge number of issues we currently have, where wiki
>>>>> A
>>>>> has lots of little articles, whereas wiki B has the same content all in
>>>>> sections of one article; or where wiki A and wiki B have chosen
>>>>> different
>>>>> primary items for their treatment of a field. (For example: the
>>>>> profession
>>>>> 'hatmaker' or the activity 'hatmaking').
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Allowing and encouraging sitelinks to redirect is the key to keeping a
>>>>> clean item structure on Wikidata, while still connecting readers to the
>>>>> most relevant pages in their preferred alternative languages.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- James.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14/10/2014 21:00, Jane Darnell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> nope
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Smolenski Nikola <smole...@eunet.rs>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Citiranje Jane Darnell <jane...@gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2) There is no way of making an interwikilink for a redirect, and
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> German Wikipedia's "afrikanische Pflaume" is currently a redirect to
>>>>>>>> "Prunus"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should still be able to make an interwiki link for a redirect
>>>>>>> the old
>>>>>>> way,
>>>>>>> are you not?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>
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